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Haas Machine Question


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#1 Jeff the haas_guy

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 06:49 AM

We bought a new Haas (VF2 SSYT) and received it 2 weeks ago.  I have been running Haas's for 20 years and now they decide that you can't run the machine with the doors open. I do this often to prove out a program before running (which I'm sure all of you do). The only way to do this is to hold down the green button when the doors are open, which makes for an inconvenient way to do this. The service guy told me there was no way to override this any more. (parameter 51 was door override in the past). Haas anyone had this problem and how did you bypass this?

#2 JParis

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 07:02 AM

Wrong place to ask this Jeff,  try this forum instead

#3 YoDoug®

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 12:06 PM

You most likely not be able to bypass it. I work for a machine tool distributor. Our major brands are Okuma and Chiron but we also sell Bridgeport/Hardinge machine as well. An AE for Hardinge told the new machines that are coming with all the extra safety lock downs are just getting ready for new OSHA regulations for 2012. From what I have been told you not be able to run the spindle at all with the door open and only .001 handwheel movement while holding a "deadmans" switch. Makes it a pain to indicate parts in.

#4 Jeff the haas_guy

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 04:43 PM

Thanks Doug. I kinda thought it was an OSHA thing. Seems like they are again using the CYA for Haas so if some newbie gets hurt, they are not liable. Just makes it very difficult for the experienced person to get the job done.

#5 Joe788

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 07:18 PM

The interlock situation with MTBs is completely out of hand. If you lock the machine down so tight that a person can't perform their job, they eventually just COMPLETELY disable the interlocks, rather than work with them. This creates a far more dangerous situation. :angry:

#6 gcode

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 09:26 PM

Quote

they eventually just COMPLETELY disable the interlocks, rather than work with them. This creates a far more dangerous situation

and leaves the machine's owner without a leg to stand on in the event of a lawsuit over an injury.

#7 Joe788

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 10:16 PM

View Postgcode, on 21 May 2011 - 09:26 PM, said:

and leaves the machine's owner without a leg to stand on in the event of a lawsuit over an injury.

In this day and age, I wouldn't be surprised to see a jury side with an employee/employer in a suit against the MTB for making the interlocks so cumbersome that the end user was "forced" to disable them.  :blink:

#8 sorin ceoboata

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 10:20 PM

[

#9 sorin ceoboata

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 10:27 PM

I have an idea, but is illegal

#10 Jeff the haas_guy

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 05:22 AM

View PostJoe788, on 21 May 2011 - 07:18 PM, said:

The interlock situation with MTBs is completely out of hand. If you lock the machine down so tight that a person can't perform their job, they eventually just COMPLETELY disable the interlocks, rather than work with them. This creates a far more dangerous situation. :angry:
I actually plan on disabling the machine door override after the warranty runs out. I have the approval of the shop supervisor so its not going to be a problem.

#11 Jeff the haas_guy

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 05:23 AM

View Postsorin ceoboata, on 21 May 2011 - 10:27 PM, said:

I have an idea, but is illegal
...and that would be.....

#12 Guest_CNC Apps Guy 1_*

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 07:07 AM

We all have litigation to thank for this.


Can't wait to see what you guys have to say when your machines start coming with motion detectors so that when/if you move it 3 feet, the machine becomes disabled and you have to call the dealer/builder to re-activiate it.


We have people that set up shadow companies here in the US that then turn around and sell/move 5-Axis equipment to places where said equipment is export restricted...

#13 Joe788

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 12:33 PM

View PostCNC Apps Guy 1, on 22 May 2011 - 07:07 AM, said:

We all have litigation to thank for this.


Can't wait to see what you guys have to say when your machines start coming with motion detectors so that when/if you move it 3 feet, the machine becomes disabled and you have to call the dealer/builder to re-activiate it.


We have people that set up shadow companies here in the US that then turn around and sell/move 5-Axis equipment to places where said equipment is export restricted...

I've already got a couple of those James. Fortunately they are not the type of machine that ever gets moved around, so the multi-thousand dollar rigging bill is always going to be a much bigger issue than the location tracker. Overly restrictive interlocks on the other hand, rear their ugly head EVERY day. :angry:

I'm actually perfectly fine with not being able to cut with the doors open. What drives me nuts is having to switch to manual mode, turn a key, and then hit a door unlock button just to peek in the machine.  :angry:

#14 YoDoug®

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 01:11 PM

Quote

I'm actually perfectly fine with not being able to cut with the doors open. What drives me nuts is having to switch to manual mode, turn a key, and then hit a door unlock button just to peek in the machine. :angry:

I'm also ok with not being able to machine with the doors open. Years ago when i first started machining I was running a big open horizontal boring bar. A 1.5 diameter, 6 inch flute length end mill broke off and flew past my head only missing me by inches. Ever since then I really appreciate fully enclosed machining centers.

The issues I have are having to hold that stupid deadmans switch to manually move the machine. I'm ok with only .001 handle increments with the door open but having to hold that switch is ridiculous. Also I think you should be able to run the spindle up to 600-800 rpm with the door open.

#15 MotorCityMinion

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 02:25 PM

I have not seen an OSHA rep in Michigan in over 20 years in the past 5 shops I've been in. Even insurance reps don't look around. Put your glasses on and smile they tell us. EPA? Never seen them. Must be a west coast thing?

#16 Jeff the haas_guy

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 05:43 PM

View PostJoe788, on 22 May 2011 - 12:33 PM, said:

I've already got a couple of those James. Fortunately they are not the type of machine that ever gets moved around, so the multi-thousand dollar rigging bill is always going to be a much bigger issue than the location tracker. Overly restrictive interlocks on the other hand, rear their ugly head EVERY day. :angry:

I'm actually perfectly fine with not being able to cut with the doors open. What drives me nuts is having to switch to manual mode, turn a key, and then hit a door unlock button just to peek in the machine.  :angry:
Leave the key on setup, at least on the Haas, motion stops, and I run the machine at 25%. Actually, at 25% I will get in less trouble with crashes. You can catch it better if not running at 500 IPM.

#17 Mr. Wizzard

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 07:52 AM

Personally, i think it's a move in response to the machining industry. There's a huge lack of machinists today and it's moving to a few skilled programmers and machinists setting up machines for low-experienced button-pushers. Absolutely agree that the ever increasing nanny state regulators treat everyone like morons and make it more difficult for professionals to perform their jobs, but so goes the business.

With respect to the question, I can just say that I've had to get "creative" on a few occasions, myself. I prefer zip-ties for safety switches and lockouts. When the safety guy comes around, you can quickly snip 'em and be "legal". :D

#18 iowajim62

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 11:01 AM

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I prefer zip-ties for safety switches and lockouts. When the safety guy comes around, you can quickly snip 'em and be "legal".

The newer interlocks have to be taken apart or unbolted from the door itself.
I have seen a simulated interlock component fabricated and then used to put in the interlock device so the machine thinks the door is closed.

#19 JParis

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 12:09 PM

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I have seen a simulated interlock component fabricated and then used to put in the interlock device so the machine thinks the door is closed.

Had an AE "provide" a replacement one once on the DL

#20 Mr. Wizzard

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 12:17 PM

also, some can be activated with a simple magnet :)