786 replies to this topic

[GoetzInd]

Quote

Or they could just fix it.....

That's crazy talk!  

[Neurosis]

Rickster™, on 26 March 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

Or they could just fix it.........(for ppl who don't read the forum or are noobs).....

Why bother fixing it when we have such great "work arounds" to work with.  

[Neurosis]

CNC Apps Guy 1, on 26 March 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

What I don't get in this whole discussion about tool offsets and whatnot, is why people don't want refuse to take advantage of functions in the machine that will eliminate a whole host of possible issues that are not even CAM related. I mean hey, it's your machine, use it how you want, but you're really missing out.

Our Mori is set up so that H200 and D200 are always used and we do not have this issue in that machine.  

I think that the point is more that you should NOT have to worry about the CAM system outputting faulty numbers. If the CAM system were working properly we would not be having this discussion in the first place. The fact that this particular issue has been around for so long and obviously very well known about by CNC is troubling.

We have a couple of older machines here that are not able to hold the same tolerance on a small diameter hole as on the larger. We use multiple diameter offsets to regulate the hole sizes. On those machines we cannot have a hard coded H or D value unless we want to have to hand edit the necessary programs. I should be able to have faith in my CAM system to output the proper H and D values should I not?

I have allot of respect for you James but this is something that is difficult for me to understand. Height and Diameter values are one area that I would hope that I would not have to fight with this system to output proper values. Regardless how how easy it is to manipulate in to our post.

[Rickster™]

Quote

eliminate a whole host of possible issues

but not all??

Neurosis, James is just trying to clarify that CNC may never fix the issue so
You might be better off to fix it by post warning or hard coding etc...


James, for the record, I have fixed my H and D zero issues, sorry I forgot to tell you....


Now I just have several other issues that plague me that have
no work around, but i hear MU1 will fix them..

[gms1]

CNC Apps Guy 1, on 26 March 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

What I don't get in this whole discussion about tool offsets and whatnot, is why people don't want refuse to take advantage of functions in the machine that will eliminate a whole host of possible issues that are not even CAM related. I mean hey, it's your machine, use it how you want, but you're really missing out.

I don't come across the tool renumbering issue very often and I think it's because it HAS burned me so I go out of my way to make sure it doesn't happen again, but this most certainly IS CAM related. If I open my mastercam file I expect to see the tool numbers / offsets match what is in my posted code. Yes, I can make the post edits to fix this and in some cases I have... I just don't like doing it because I want the data to match.

[Watcher]

Neurosis, on 26 March 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

We have a couple of older machines here that are not able to hold the same tolerance on a small diameter hole as on the larger. We use multiple diameter offsets to regulate the hole sizes. On those machines we cannot have a hard coded H or D value unless we want to have to hand edit the necessary programs. I should be able to have faith in my CAM system to output the proper H and D values should I not?

It's always great to hear about real life examples that are often underestimated by CAM developers and their QA teams.

+10K to Neurosis.

[Neurosis]

gms1, on 26 March 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

I just don't like doing it because I want the data to match.

This is my feeling on the matter. I want my part file to be correct. I do not want my post fixing xxxx ups that are caused by the CAM system.

Eventually, once I get some free time ( I havent had very many spare blocks of time since getting the new machines )  I will be implement something similar to what newb has.

[Wes@M.A.D.]

Quote

What I don't get in this whole discussion about tool offsets and whatnot, is why people don't want refuse to take advantage of functions in the machine that will eliminate a whole host of possible issues that are not even CAM related. I mean hey, it's your machine, use it how you want, but you're really missing out.

words from a true AE
we have some of those Zombies walking around here too

We have over 80 CNC's on the floor to deal with on a DAILY basis. a multitude of different controls and machine types. I would expect my cadcam software to behave as it should/used too. It's one thing to have weeks on end to play with controls and software, It's a whole other ballgame helping to keep a manufacturing company going strong with random H,0 tool and work offsets and what else happening at random.

This release has really made ( he who's name must not be mentioned) looking right on target

[Neurosis]

CNC Apps Guy 1, on 26 March 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

That is why I say this is not necessarrily a CAM issue. In your particular instance it is a CAM generated issue, but T/H/D mismatches have been happening since LONG before I even saw my first CNC machine.

While that may be true, I have been programming since 1990 and Mastercam is the ONLY system that I have used that has output wrong H and D values.

[Rickster™]

^^^^same here

[Teh Bear without Brains kinda idiot]

While that may be true, I have been programming since 1990 and Mastercam is the ONLY system that I have used that has output wrong H and D values.
~````````````````
+1000
especially when you translate your toolpath but can happen anywhere and be weird
2 different tools can have same number too even after renumber

[newbeeee]

Neurosis, on 26 March 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

Eventually, once I get some free time ( I havent had very many spare blocks of time since getting the new machines )  I will be implement something similar to what newb has.

If you want a copy of our post, PM me and you're welcome to it.

[Mick]

newbeeee, on 26 March 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:

Mick,
If a situation happens where H+D do not match T number, when posting it flags a warning saying
PLEASE CHECK THE TOOL OFFSETS. OPERATION ID NUMBER = # (where # is the offending op number).
It then allows you to post and the code shows upto the offending op number, which then has a note saying OPERATION ID # and goes no further.
So it is a very safe warning.

Ah, ok, it actually halts the posting. That is a better option.

[Neurosis]

Apparently there have been a few bugs missed.  


I changed a z value in a roughing operation and it dirtied a transformed operation (as expected). I tried to re-run the transformed operation and it failed.  Then I noticed that it dirtied two other "entire" tool path groups in a completely different machine group.  

ACK!  

This was an X5 file pulled in to X6.

[GoetzInd]

I'm not really surprised they missed a lot of stuff. I'm sure they were trying to fix the big ones first. My biggest day to day problem is with the stability of tool/holders. It is still a disaster. I am working on documenting it better by screen recording an entire part so CNC can see what I am dealing with and hopefully fix/offer some assistance.

Mike

[Neurosis]

I dont think that this is something that was missed. I think that this might be something new. Edit: I mean from X5 to X6, not sure about X6 to X6 mu1.  I no longer have X6 (non mu1) installed so I cant test it.


I have a roughing operation that was mirrored.  I used "by geometry" rather than "nci"  

The previous operations that went dirty are not linked to this operation in any way.  when I tried to regen the transformed operation it flopped the wcs for the operations that were in the other machine group completely upside down.  Look at both of my screen shots.  


This is hilarious.


The screen shot on the right is proper, the one on the left is the flopped wcs.


I did just re-open the original file in X5 and was able to regen the mirrored operation without any problem.

Attached Files

•  Capture2.PNG   57.55K   105 downloads
•  Capture.PNG   57.95K   104 downloads

[Neurosis]

Ok,

After attempting to regen the transformed operation a couple of times, I decided to delete it and create it from scratch and everything worked fine. No more flopped wcs.

X6 does not like the X5 transformed operation.  

[rjw]

Wow....I've been using Mcam since 3.11 and never upgraded since V9 !!!!!  May be missing some of the new hs paths, but parts come out of the machines regularly  and without a hitch

Now decided to look at the 'latest and greatest X6' and found this thread......too funny and very sad .......while playing with X6, I've watched some strange stuff happen on screen, but thought it was me!!

I did have some success with fbm (simple parts)

Need to keep my ear to the ground, cause I may be going to a new job with 8 - 10 cnc's and I'm expected to impress my Boss with X5...ouch?