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Newbee stupid question thread


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#41 gcode

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:20 PM

This is where a Fadal expert steps in ... I don't have the foggiest idea what the rigid tapping code is for a Fadal.
Its worth finding out if your machine has the option as ridig tapping is a much better way to go if your machine can do it



#42 Jay Kramer @ Precision Programming

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 04:43 PM

If I remember right I thought it was G84.1 I thought. some will still use the G84 what is the control?

#43 JAMMAN

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:08 AM

It's an 88HS control... I think.

When we bought it the seller said it had a 10,000 rpm spindle and rigid tapping also. This thing is strange, the spindle was going about 3 times the RPM it thought it was and by the time I got through adjusting parameters so taps were not boring holes I ended up at the 7500RPM settings.

Funny the settings I ended up at were nothing like the sheet inside the controller. The machine working parts (ball screws, linear bearings, tool turret, spindle) appear to have NO WEAR whatsoever. There is a white Fadal tag on the motor saying it is a 15HP which would point at 10,000 rpm. The actual Baldor tag on the motor says it is a 10 HP which would be the 7500 RPM. The vector drive for the motor has a similar paper tag from Fadal saying it has rigid tapping. The actual drive numbers return a 7500 rpm drive and says nothing about rigid tapping BUT being closed loop it should be able to do the math if the controller knows how to divide.

Out of the box at 300RPM the spindle was actually doing 900, proved this with a digital tach. It was overshooting the tool change orientation detent by so much a tool change was impossible. The parameters are no where close to what the factory setup sheet says after I adjusted it but it makes parts and taps holes now just not with G84.1. The machines setup when I got it was probably the reason it never got used, how could anyone make a part on it with one tool and the spindle outrunning itself by 3X?

#44 Thad

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 05:28 AM

If you type SETP from the command line, you can see the control parameters. It should list in there in you toggle through the different pages if you have rigid tapping. I think it might even list the max RPM. You may have to re-cold start the machine after you exit the parameters mode.

We used G84.1 for rigid tapping on our Fadals. We ran them in Format 1.

Thad

#45 JAMMAN

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:17 AM

Thank you, yes format 1. The problem with SETP is it only displays what it is set at not what it is supposed to be. I'll play with the 84.1 again today in several situations to see what it does.

This is not the end :)

#46 Jay Kramer @ Precision Programming

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:37 AM

Here is a sample from my Fadal post that uses the G84.1 notice the feed rate.

TA,1
%
O0001 ( T REV:  )
( T )
(MACHINE TOOL : FADAL FORMAT 1 )
(DATE - 16-05-12 )
(TIME - 06:31 )
(*)
(MATERIAL: )
(STOCK SIZE:  X = 0. Y = 0. Z = 0. )
(HOME POSTION COORIDNATES ARE THE FOLLOWING)
(X=  )
(Y=  )
(Z= TOP OF PART)
(*)
( TOOL - 1  DIA. - .25  1/4-20 TAPRH   )
(*)
(USING FIXTURE OFFSETS:  E1 )
(*)
G0 G17 G40 G49 G80 G90
T1 M6 ( TOOL - 1  1/4-20 TAPRH DIA. OFF. - 199  LEN. - 1  DIA. - .25 )
G0 G90 S300.2 M5 E1 X0. Y0.
G43 H1 Z2.
G84.2
G98 G84.1 X0. Y0. Z-.4 Q.05 R.1 F300.2
G80
M5
G0 G49 Z0.0
G0 X0. Y0. E0
M0
M2
( BECAUSE YOU HAVE A CHOICE - )
( THANK YOU FOR CHOOSING PRECISION PROGRAMMING )
%

#47 JAMMAN

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:49 AM

Cool Jay thanks.

Heres how it looked out of mine:

N100 O0099 ( RTAP )
N110 ( CREATED ON 05-16-12 AT 8:52 AM )
N120 ( MCX FILE - \\FILESERVER\MCX\STOCK\TOOLPATHS\210828_MTPTESTB.MCX-6 )
N130 ( NC FILE - \\FILESERVER\NC\RTAP.NC )
N140 ( MATERIAL -  )
N150 G20
N160 G0 G17 G40 G49 G80 G90 H0 E0 Z0
N170 (  1/4-20 TAPRH  TOOL - 3  DIA. OFF. - 3  LEN. - 3  DIA - 0.25 )
N180 T3 M6
N190 A-0.
N200 G0 G90 S250.2 M5 M90 E1 X-2.5 Y1.031
N210 G84.2
N220 H3 Z.1 M8
N230 G84.1 G99 Z-.65 R0.1 F250. Q.05 P100
N240 X0.
N250 X2.5
N260 Y-1.031
N270 X0.
N280 X-2.5
N290 G80
N300 M5 M9
N310 G90 H0 Z0.
N320 E0 X0 Y0
N330 M2


I have determined that this Fadal does not have rigid tapping. Good thing I don't have to tap with it a lot :)

Since you seem to be Fadal savvy, I see you can use DF, DT, DTT, DV BUT is there anywhere you can see the difference between the cold start position and what you have entered for SETX, SETY, SETZ? Just curiosity at this point, on our HAAS the part position ends up being G54 which you can see.

#48 Jay Kramer @ Precision Programming

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:50 AM

Also notice the layout in my Parameters page in the picture.

#49 Jay Kramer @ Precision Programming

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:59 AM

Quote

Since you seem to be Fadal savvy, I see you can use DF, DT, DTT, DV BUT  is there anywhere you can see the difference between the cold start  position and what you have entered for SETX, SETY, SETZ? Just curiosity  at this point, on our HAAS the part position ends up being G54 which you  can see.

I know there is a page I just can not remember the DOS command for it. I will have to find my Fadal cheater cards in my tool box.

Did you notice at the top of my posted code that it outputs the TA,1 so you only have to have the machine sitting at the Command to send? you can also change that for DNC and will run from there to.

#50 JAMMAN

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:01 AM

Hmmm mine doesn't look like that, using the generic Fadal format 1 post that came with MCX6

Attached Files

  • Attached File  rt.PNG   34.05K   18 downloads


#51 JAMMAN

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:07 AM

View PostJay Kramer @ Precision Programming, on 16 May 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

Did you notice at the top of my posted code that it outputs the TA,1 so you only have to have the machine sitting at the Command to send? you can also change that for DNC and will run from there to.


Yes I saw that, cool trick but I'm using the lancnc-fad from calmotion knowing eventually I will have to drip large programs from it. Runs off a 2G SD card. Imagine seeing that 15 years ago, we would have thought the aliens had invaded and abducted our machines.

#52 gms1

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:12 AM

Such bizarre posted code :) Are you peck tapping? I see a q.05 in there! Also, I see a P100 at the end of that bad boy. Are you dwelling for 100 seconds on that cycle?

#53 Jay Kramer @ Precision Programming

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:14 AM

View PostJAMMAN, on 16 May 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

Hmmm mine doesn't look like that, using the generic Fadal format 1 post that came with MCX6
Actually that is asking the same question. my post is old I have been using it for years.

#54 Jay Kramer @ Precision Programming

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:15 AM

View PostJAMMAN, on 16 May 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Yes I saw that, cool trick but I'm using the lancnc-fad from calmotion knowing eventually I will have to drip large programs from it. Runs off a 2G SD card. Imagine seeing that 15 years ago, we would have thought the aliens had invaded and abducted our machines.
That is cool tool and ya seeing that 15 years ago would of been a mind blower. LOL

#55 Jay Kramer @ Precision Programming

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:18 AM

View Postgms1, on 16 May 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Such bizarre posted code :) Are you peck tapping? I see a q.05 in there! Also, I see a P100 at the end of that bad boy. Are you dwelling for 100 seconds on that cycle?
The Q is the pitch of the tap as for the P100 on his I was wondering my self.

#56 Thad

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:32 AM

The P value will allow you to retract out of the hole faster than you tapped in.

Thad

#57 Thad

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:38 AM

Quote

Just curiosity at this point, on our HAAS the part position ends up being G54 which you can see.

You can use G54 if you want. G54 = E1, G55 = E2, etc.

Thad

#58 Thad

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:44 AM

The F in the tapping cycle in the RPM.

Thad

#59 JAMMAN

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:18 AM

This is the portion of the overall program I just ran. Even using a rigid tap holder it made good threads though there was a pause before the tap reversed like some of you speculated.

N520 (  1/4-20 TAPRH  TOOL - 3  DIA. OFF. - 3  LEN. - 3  DIA - 0.25 )
N530 T3 M6
N540 G0 G90 S250 M3 E1 X-2.5 Y1.031
N550 H3 Z.1 M8
N560 G84 G99 X-2.5 Y1.031 Z-.65 R0.1 F250. Q.05 P50
N570 X0.
N580 X2.5
N590 Y-1.031
N600 X0.
N610 X-2.5
N620 G80
N630 M5 M9
N640 G90 H0 Z0.
N650 M1

#60 JAMMAN

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:07 PM

Me again,

our Fadal seems to be stopping at all endpoints, even in arcs. Infinite look ahead is on in mastercam, but I remember from the "crusader M" days you could use Aux 1000 to smooth the transition. Is there a setting in the Fadal that makes it not stop at the endpoints? Seems like it should be a default.