42 replies to this topic

[Jason @ CPM Industries]

I'm trying to figure out how many people actually use the 3d HSM from start to finish on a job.  We machine complex 3d tools for the casting process so we manly machine ren board witch is like cutting butter.  We have a bunch of high speed machines but still use the old style toolpaths because the HSM toolpaths can't finish a part.  We run the old style toolpaths at 200-400 IPM and everything seems to work fine.  I am just wondering if I am completely missing something or is this a common thing that people are facing with mastercam.  It worries me because there has been no updates to these toolpaths since V9.

[Jay Kramer @ Precision Programming]

I use these tools allot for roughing and finishing.I would hat to loose these options. so you work at a foundry basicly creating patterns out of Ren board. did allot of that and I used both types of paths on them.

[Mark @ PPG]

Very rarely do I go back to legacy surfacing toolpaths.
So yes, I use 3D HSM from start to finish.

hth

[JParis]

Can't finish with them???


I don't get that

I've used them 100%, occasionally I need a flowline or blend but that's it

[Wes@M.A.D.]

I rarely use the new paths. they don't really fit the type of wok we do. But I most always use the legacy paths when I do 3 axis work. More tool control if you ask me, plus a lot less settings to deal with to get nice clean toolpath. Most of the core cavity type parts I get require a 5 axis cut anyway.

[Jason @ CPM Industries]

What replaces the leftover, shallow and contour?
What type of toolpaths would you use to machine something like this?

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[gcode]

I use them a lot... especially the ones that support stock recognition.

we have a 321 stainelss steel carbon fiber layup mold we build every year or so.

old school, the roughing ran about 120 hrs and another 60 for finishing
It also burned up about $10K to 15K worth of inserts


I reprogrammed it using  high speed toolpaths and Sandvik button cutters
we now rough it in under 30 hrs and use a couple of boxes of inserts.
Finishing is about 40 hours.

The savings on that one job cover Mastercam maintenance for about a decade

We have another job, an inconel 625 water box for the Navy.
Another programmer tried it 2 years ago , old school and failed.. we ended up sending the job back.
We took another run at it last month. Using high speed toolpaths, I beat the quoted time by 20%

[JParis]

restmill using stock models

Hybrid finish, Waterline and Raster or Scallop.

Bottom line, it can all be done but you may need to rethink your process, there are more efficient ways.

Remember though, they are just another tool in your toolbox

[Redfire427]

Jason @ CPM Industries, on 20 June 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

I'm trying to figure out how many people actually use the 3d HSM from start to finish on a job.  We machine complex 3d tools for the casting process so we manly machine ren board witch is like cutting butter.  We have a bunch of high speed machines but still use the old style toolpaths because the HSM toolpaths can't finish a part.  We run the old style toolpaths at 200-400 IPM and everything seems to work fine.  I am just wondering if I am completely missing something or is this a common thing that people are facing with mastercam.  It worries me because there has been no updates to these toolpaths since V9.

I had to read this twice because I thought it was a joke. HSM can't finish a part??????????? I have been using the HSM toolpaths since they were first introduced and never looked back. Less than 5% of my programming uses the old toolpaths. You have way more tool control not to mention smoother transitions and multi-threading. I would suggest spending a little time learning how they work.

Carmen

[Redfire427]

Jason @ CPM Industries, on 20 June 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

What replaces the leftover, shallow and contour?
What type of toolpaths would you use to machine something like this?

You actually have many options.
Just for rough comparisons leftover could be replaced by HST pencil, restmill
Shallow could be replaced by HST raster with a slope angle, HST scallop, HST hybrid
Contour could be replaced by HST waterline

Start using the new toolpaths and you will rarely go back.

Carmen

[Mark @ PPG]

Worth mentioning is that none of the new HSM toolpaths will do undercutting. I do a lot of that here and that's where I have to use legacy toolpaths (flowline and finish contour)...

[JParis]

^^^ Agreed Mark

In some sectors, undercutting is necessary, in mold making it's a no-no  

[Jason @ CPM Industries]

Thanks for the replies.  Believe me I would much rather have my employees using the toolpaths that are made for the machines.  Some of them took a advanced mill class at the end of the year last year and they spent a day and half on the old toolpaths and 2 hours on the HSM.  I just want to make sure they can go with out using the old ones when I tell them to use the better toolpaths made for the HSM machines.

[Redfire427]

Few people truly understand high-speed machining, nor do they know how to apply the technology for programming purposes. I have done nothing but high-speed programming and machining for Makino's and Microns over the last eight years. You cannot blame your employees for not knowing how to use the toolpaths, but even further, training institutions know even less as the instructors usually possess no practical knowledge of machining, especially on the high-speed front. Machine tool technology is moving toward high-speed at a rapid rate. You would be doing yourself ( and your company ) a favour to learn how these toolpaths work to get the most of your investment, not to mention tool-life, surface finish, and most importantly, productivity.

[Jason @ CPM Industries]

Redfire427, on 20 June 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

Few people truly understand high-speed machining, nor do they know how to apply the technology for programming purposes. I have done nothing but high-speed programming and machining for Makino's and Microns over the last eight years. You cannot blame your employees for not knowing how to use the toolpaths, but even further, training institutions know even less as the instructors usually possess no practical knowledge of machining, especially on the high-speed front. Machine tool technology is moving toward high-speed at a rapid rate. You would be doing yourself ( and your company ) a favour to learn how these toolpaths work to get the most of your investment, not to mention tool-life, surface finish, and most importantly, productivity.

Redfire, I agree with you 100 percent.  They have tried and I even sent some of them for training and they still end up going back to the old way and it drives me crazy.  I just have to push more for them to use the HS or need someone like you to come in and show everyone how its done.  Thanks for the input.  Very much appreciated.

[Cuda84]

I use only the new toolpaths for finishing, never the old finish paths. Occasionally I will need surface rough pocket, but other then that I only use the new ones for roughing also.

On some of the high speed finish toolpaths there is a rest material tab that turns that toolpath into a leftover toolpath.  

[Chris Rizzo]

Quote

Some of them took a advanced mill class at the end of the year last year and they spent a day and half on the old toolpaths and 2 hours on the HSM.

I run my advanced class the other way around. It's the 21rst century.


It's important to know ALL the toolpaths, and where each excels and each doesn't. Oh, don't forget holder detection!!! An undeniable argument for hst. Your probably cutting some deep cores/cavitys in ren, that is HUGE for that application.

I built alot of in-depth training modules here at StreamingTeacher.

[Jeremy Herron@DBS Solutions™]

Undercutting, surface finish blend, and surface rough pocket (just because it is the surface toolpath you can use cutter comp on) are about the only time I go to the legacy paths. Jus sayin' ;-)

[newbeeee]

I am the original Newb, but use as many 'new' paths as possible.
The only legacy surface path I use is flowline, which is a real simple good solid path.
Everything else is new for roughing, but I do use 2D contour alot for finishing (comp reasons mainly).