Pallet & Program check

[Guest]

I am looking to set up a pallet and program check, looking to see if anyone has anything they might be willing to share?

 

We had a guy on the Mori HMC run the wrong program on the wrong pallet, subsequently, we lost several fixtures.,....

 

 

[THEE THAINZ™]

Ouch, Sorry to hear.....

[Mic6]

Pic or it didn't happen.   also...bummer on that.

[crazy^millman]

John M61(PALLET 1) and M62(PALLET 2) imbedded in the program if the standard NH type of HMC if it is a multi-Pallet then M6X is the number of the pallet to check for. M65 = Pallet 5.

 

Another thing I have done for different customers who had probes was to put a block in a place on the pallet. Each Face of a Tomb and Pallet had their own block cut to a specify height. The machine would go probe before ever running anything. Block was not right machine would alarm out. Could use a hole or soemthing else, but it was mentioned years ago on here and I like the block process much better if you got a probe on the machine. If not then this in every program:

 

M00(Look at the Pallet you are running)

M00(have you triple checked the pallet)

M00(Wrong Pallet for this program and it is your job)

[Tim Johnson]

Here's a segment of a part that runs on pallet A only;

N3 G91 G30 X0 Y0 Z0
G00 G17 G20 G40 G49 G64 G80 G90 G94
#153=1
IF[#1000NE1]GOTO99003<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Pallet A machine variable
IF[#910NE1]GOTO99004 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Pallet A variables active check
IF[#10006GT13.75]GOTO99001
M06 T06 (4.50MM COOLANT THROUGH 15D CARBIDE DRILL)
M270
T07
#170=4030
#172=5003
#173=98
#174=0
#199=0
M08
M50
M54
M98P5013
M09
M51
M55
M05
G91 G30 X0 Y0 Z0
#153=#0
M01
 

N99003 #3000=3(WRONG PALLET IS IN WORK AREA)
N99004 #3000=4(PROGRAM NOT IN SYNC WITH PALLET)

[Jasond0530]

I have this in my Mori NH post, and set with a misc interger

 

O0000(T)

(DRAWING NUMBER : )

(ISSUE/REV NUMBER : )

(MCX FILE - )

(NC FILE - T.NC)

(30-01-15 10:05)

 

G0G90G80G40G94G49G17G21

 

G10G90L2P1X-365.Y0.Z0.B0.

 

/M93(BUZZER & LIGHT ON)

M1(OPTIONAL STOP-NOT ALARM)

M94(BUZZER & LIGHT OFF)

 

M161(PALLET 1)

IF[#147NE1]THEN#3000=123(PALLET ERROR)

 

N1T15M6(8MM ALLY CARB )

 

G0G90G54X212.5Y-70.3S10000M3

M11

B0.0(MCX B OUTPUT = B0.)

M10

G17T15

G43Z50.H15M8

G8 P1

Z6.

G1Z5.F200.

G41D15X217.55F800.

G3Z4.25I-5.05J0.

Z3.5I-5.05J0.

Z2.75I-5.05J0.

Z2.I-5.05J0.

Z1.25I-5.05J0.

Z.5I-5.05J0.

Z-.25I-5.05J0.

Z-1.I-5.05J0.

Z-1.75I-5.05J0.

Z-2.5I-5.05J0.

Z-3.25I-5.05J0.

Z-4.I-5.05J0.

Z-4.75I-5.05J0.

Z-5.5I-5.05J0.

Z-6.25I-5.05J0.

Z-7.I-5.05J0.

Z-7.75I-5.05J0.

Z-8.5I-5.05J0.

Z-9.25I-5.05J0.

Z-10.I-5.05J0.

Z-10.75I-5.05J0.

Z-11.5I-5.05J0.

I-5.05J0.

G1G40X212.5

G0Z25.

Z50.

G8 P0

M9

M5

G30G91Z0.0

 

M162(PALLET 2)

IF[#147NE2]THEN#3000=123(PALLET ERROR)

[Guest]

Thanks guys, I have something that short term will work until I can put together something a bit more elegant  

[Guest]

:cough: probe: :cough:

 

:

 

 

[Mr. M]

I setup a sub to see if the right pallet is in the machine and if not it will pallet change

OM201

IF[VPLNO NE 1] NM60

GOTO NEND

NM60

M60

NEND

RTS

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

I setup our post to use G54.1 P1-24 (Assigned to pallet #1) to output M500C1 which runs a sub that checks the pallet and changes if necessary. G54.1 P25-49 (Assigned to pallet #2) outputs a M500C2.

 

Pretty simple really.

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

Mori also has the ability to assign each pallet a program number. If you start the wrong program for the current pallet it wi.pallet change. Hit the program key then left over soft key. Can't remember the exact name. Maybe "work monitor"?

[Mick]

I'm all for using a probe. As mentioned by Ron, placing a bore in a unique position, then running the probe. No correct position, no bueno!

 

I actually went so far as to have a unique bore location for each face on the fixture/tombstone. Worked a treat.

[T_MALENA]

I also did the "probe a bore" .  Different dia for each & then diff location & dia after we had a few more added.  Also pallets are called by # in the program. So 2x the error check.  Never did get a call about wrong prog / pallet crash.  .0004 offset instead of 4.000 yea got that call!

[Josh Kinney -Elite Engineering]

Here's our Mori pallet check: M500 calls this sub. The C value is passed to #3 (M500C1)

 

%

O9020(PALLET CHECK)

G5.1Q0 

IF[#3GE1]GOTO70

#3=#3*10000

N70

IF[#147EQ#3]GOTO71 

(M60 PALLET CHANGE)

(SET 6072=60)

#3003=1

#33=#4003

G0G91G30Z0 

G30X0Y0M11 

G28B0M10 

M60

G#33 

#3003=0

IF[#147EQ#3]GOTO71 

#3006=1(PALLET # OUT OF RANGE) 

N71

M99

%

[soymilk]

As josh pointed out above,  i believe mori seiki puts the current pallet into macro variable #147 and current tool into #148

 

We've been hard coding the M61 and M62 into the program on a few machines.  On this last machine we got,  i found out the where in the machine the info was stored a wrote a small macro to check the program against that number and alarm out if its not correct.  I like it better than putting m61/m62 into the program.  If the pallet isn't correct the machine won't automatically move on its own to change the pallet.  Had at least one incident where the operator wasn't expecting the pallet change and it freaked him out when it started trying to change the pallet.  

[crazy^millman]

As josh pointed out above,  i believe mori seiki puts the current pallet into macro variable #147 and current tool into #148

 

We've been hard coding the M61 and M62 into the program on a few machines.  On this last machine we got,  i found out the where in the machine the info was stored a wrote a small macro to check the program against that number and alarm out if its not correct.  I like it better than putting m61/m62 into the program.  If the pallet isn't correct the machine won't automatically move on its own to change the pallet.  Had at least one incident where the operator wasn't expecting the pallet change and it freaked him out when it started trying to change the pallet.  

 

If the operator hit the button on the outside of the machine to make do the pallet change when it was ready then there was no reason for them to freak out. Sorry some people and their need to grow up.

[soymilk]

If the operator hit the button on the outside of the machine to make do the pallet change when it was ready then there was no reason for them to freak out. Sorry some people and their need to grow up.

 

 i still would prefer if the machine alarmed out before making any movements.  Thats just my personal preference.  

 

As for the button,  the "awesome" operators at my company would hit it ahead of time.  

[crazy^millman]

 i still would prefer if the machine alarmed out before making any movements.  Thats just my personal preference.  

 

As for the button,  the "awesome" operators at my company would hit it ahead of time.  

 

Well I would check your movement routines in your macro. All I have seen is the machine Home in Z 1st then home X and Y. Again if the button is pressed then and only then will the pallet change like they told it too. I have seen my share of awesome operators. I have walked out and see a 4" face mill welded to a spindle on an HMC because the operator called up the wrong tomb and slammed into it. All the checks and all the things to prevent it were in place and he just ignored them all because he knew best. Guess who was looking for a new job after that? Not the programmer or the setup guy. I am all about checks and balances, but I still think people need to take some personally responsibility for their work. I am not saying the idea or the method described is a bad way, I am just saying the machines don't just take off unless someone has done something to allow it.

[soymilk]

I could probably change the macros to check for the button first before sending the spindle z home.  But like you said, it really isn't an issue if the operators are doing what they are suppose to be doing.  I always mentioned that the button gives them a chance to double check everything before sending the next pallet in.  

 

Whatever happened to watching the first tool approach?  Had a few spirited conversations in my dept about macros and their functions.  At what point do you draw the line in "dummy proofing" the program/process?  The only thing we seem to be doing is creating better dummies. haha

[crazy^millman]

I could probably change the macros to check for the button first before sending the spindle z home.  But like you said, it really isn't an issue if the operators are doing what they are suppose to be doing.  I always mentioned that the button gives them a chance to double check everything before sending the next pallet in.  

 

Whatever happened to watching the first tool approach?  Had a few spirited conversations in my dept about macros and their functions.  At what point do you draw the line in "dummy proofing" the program/process?  The only thing we seem to be doing is creating better dummies. haha

 

I agree with creating better dummies. I go in and watch everything and know exactly what is going on. I have been in shops new program never been proven out and the setup/operator is walking away from the machine halfway through the program. I am running over and they are looking at me like I am crazy. I tell this to everyone. That program is not blessed until that part is made. That program is still not blessed until we know that is a good part. Until that point this thing could crash, tear up a tool or do something wrong. You are proving out the program and you own it; if you are not capable of owning this machine leave and I will do your job for you.

[SuperUser]

My horizontal is setup a bit different than most. Pallets are shuttled in to the machine, the machine doesn't know which pallet is being machined nor does it keep track of what pallet is being machined. Each one of my fixtures has a unique bore size, the probe first touches the face fixture setting all the tools in the rack, and then it probes the bore, setting the fixture offset, and then based on the size of the bore the macro I wrote calls the correct program and machines the parts. I know everyone that has horizontal deals with these same issues. I just took all the operator input out the equation. Fixtures on a like tombstones can be ran on any face, this makes my job easy. We need part, operator loads the fixture, schedules the number of cycles, and the machine just runs. I can get 98% spindle time this way. That is if I can get the operators to load material. lol

[jlw™]

There's a lot of wisdom and hard learned lessons in this thread.

 

We do seem to be making better dummies.

 

I usually go a step farther than most. I not only check for pallet or fixture but I usually write a little macro to make sure the part is properly located and seated in the fixture. I have been burnt more by operators half xxxx loading parts than by running the wrong program. A minute or two of probing on cycle time is well worth the downtime of a wrecked machine.

[Guest]

I've gone so far as to probe to see if capscrews have been run into proper depth. No way to check torque without REALLY expensive equipment.