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Stock advance from sub-spindle


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OK, programing for an Integrex, I created a  bunch of OPs in the main spindle, using chuck operations and stock advance, then a bunch of OPs between spinldes, I was able to push the stock out to grab it with the sub so I can machine between the 2 spindles.....

 

Now I need to, I think, push the stock back in so I can to a pickoff/cutoff transfer completely to the sub-spindle and complete the remaining ops...

 

I have tried a bunch of different things but moving stock deeper into the main spindle does not seem to want to work.....

 

This is being done in Mastercam lathe(Not Mill\Turn) I have that for a different machine, with a post from Postability......

 

I cannot share the file because of the nature of it......

 

Anyone doing this, are you accomplishing this in Mastercam or are you just using subs?

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OK, programing for an Integrex, I created a  bunch of OPs in the main spindle, using chuck operations and stock advance, then a bunch of OPs between spinldes, I was able to push the stock out to grab it with the sub so I can machine between the 2 spindles.....

 

Now I need to, I think, push the stock back in so I can to a pickoff/cutoff transfer completely to the sub-spindle and complete the remaining ops...

 

I have tried a bunch of different things but moving stock deeper into the main spindle does not seem to want to work.....

 

This is being done in Mastercam lathe(Not Mill\Turn) I have that for a different machine, with a post from Postability......

 

I cannot share the file because of the nature of it......

 

Anyone doing this, are you accomplishing this in Mastercam or are you just using subs?

 

Nope I think will have to create a new machine group using what you got to that point. Trying to do it inside of the one machine group is nothing going to happen IMHO. Mastercam gets lost when this kind of thing goes on. Break the connection point and use the new machine group to finish the part.

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Yes it can be done.  I just tried it with a bogus part in X6 lathe.  Homemade post based on mplmaster.  Using lathe stock advance with the "pull stock method" and the lathe stock transfer.  I do not have the pickoff/cutoff transfer package.  Would be nice to have...  I have never tried this before.  It looks like a little post logic on the second stock advance would do the trick.  I am also not using the chuck jaws, usually its not necessary for me, and it complicates the program.  I took a video, but the forum won't allow an .avi file.

 

Posted code:

 

%
O0000(#A.NC)
(09-03-15)

(CNMG-432)
N1(ROUGH TURN)
M98P1
T0101
G97S1273M3
G18
G0X.6Y0.Z.12
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Z-.4963
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Z-1.
N1003X.6
(FACE)
G0Z.003
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G1X-.0825
G0Z.053
M98P3
M1


N99(BAR FEED)
G97M3S100
G0G40G97G98
G28U0
G53Z#521
M108
M110
G0B0.
M31
M131
M87
M169(UNCLAMP SUB CHUCK)
M203(SYNCHRONIZING SUB SPINDLE AND MAIN SPINDLE)
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G4U1.
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G4U1.5
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M68(CLAMP MAIN CHUCK)
G4U1.5
X7.
T0
G28U0
G53Z#521
M1


(---TURN BETWEEN SPINDLES---)
(DNMG-432)
N2(FINISH TURN)
G10P0Z-[ABS[#505]+1.](UPDATE W/S)
G0G40G97G98
G28U0
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T0
G28U0
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N99(BAR FEED)
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M98P1
M31
M131
M87
M69(UNCLAMP MAIN CHUCK)
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(DNMG-432)
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N12(CUT OFF TRANSFER)
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T1212
M8
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G0B.5
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M131
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(---SUB SPINDLE WORK---)
(CCMT 32.51)
N4(ROUGH TURN)
G10P0Z-[ABS[#505]+0.](UPDATE W/S)
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G1Z.3179
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M9
M98P4
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(---SUB SPINDLE WORK---)
(VNGP-331K)
N5(FINISH TURN)
G10P0Z-[ABS[#505]+0.](UPDATE W/S)
M98P2
T0505
G97S2865M104
G0X.7Y0.Z.3179M8
G50S3600
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G1G42X.5F.015
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%

post-50142-0-83447700-1441294987_thumb.jpg

post-50142-0-19292400-1441294993_thumb.jpg

post-50142-0-55831600-1441294999_thumb.jpg

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Why would you need to "push" the stock back into the main spindle? Unless I'm misreading that.

 

You can do pick off/ transfer with Lathe, no problem, without having to create a new machine group. As long as the mach. def. is setup properly.

To gain clearance for cross working tools, then put it back to keep the remnant rigid for the next part after the cut off, would be my guess.  What say you John?

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Why would you need to "push" the stock back into the main spindle? Unless I'm misreading that.

 

You can do pick off/ transfer with Lathe, no problem, without having to create a new machine group. As long as the mach. def. is setup properly.

That was not what he was asking. He wants to bring up the sub to support the part with it out longer to clear the B Axis. Problem is clearance for tilting the head to do the part. Pull it out further than really needed to do your milling. Then push it back into the chuck to part off then go from there. I have done parts where I have made a sleeve to hold the live center that is the same diameter as the feature I will be holding. It might have 3 or 4 pulls and push in there. Not something I have even seen Mastercam handle well in one machine group. You could never tell in lathe you were using a chuck as a live center. Just crazy to even do it by most people's thoughts. Now I want to take my live center get ride of it and then hold the part. Not a simple pickoff and transfer here. Swiss allows this logic as you may push and pull a part more than a dozen times, but lathe was never meant to work this way. MT might get there one day, but what would someone do for an older machine not being developed for it? Like I said break it up into machine groups and get the job done.
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See my answer above.

 

 

Already done that way, thank you  :)

 

 

I have not done a ton of programming for these machine but enough to know how......just seems to me this is something the software should be able to handle.

I certainly do not believe I am the first person to even want to push stock back in, I know it happens regularly on swiss machines....

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Already done that way, thank you  :)

 

 

I have not done a ton of programming for these machine but enough to know how......just seems to me this is something the software should be able to handle.

I certainly do not believe I am the first person to even want to push stock back in, I know it happens regularly on swiss machines....

 

John your are not. :w00t:

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Hi Ron,

 

I was wondering if you could explain a little more what "breaking" the machine groups does and how it would be used in JP's example.

 

I'm assuming it "breaks" where it believes the stock is?

 

How do you decide when you start a new machine group and what do you use for the stock definition.  Is there any way to re-link your stock in the new machine group to the operations in the preceding machine group, or do you have to create a new one if you make major changes?

 

I'm trying to follow the reason for the "madness", or is it still crazy?

 

Thanks for any insight,

Dan

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Dan, really comes down to the part and what all you have to do with the part. I have done Triple Turret Work on parts with no issues and other parts that gets transferred with B Axis Milling. Example I can give is where I need to take part from the Right Spindle to the Left Spindle and back to the Right Spindle. I had a Set of jaws to hold the Raw Stock at the almost the MAX stroke of the jaws and then a step that was closer that allowed you to grab the finished ID done on the previous operation. Part had a Plug that went in it and the Lower Turret came up and support the part once it was transferred back to the Right Spindle to stabilize the part for the finishing turning operation. I can do the Right to the Left, but once that part is to that point I cannot transfer it back. I have create a new machine group with the part as it is at the point ans then finish up the programming. I have to paste the program into the original program.

 

Part I did a couple years ago had 2 Steady Rests, Live Center, being used in the lower turret and live tooling work going on with the upper for the Left Spindle. The Right Spindle got the transferred part and also did live tooling work. I controlled the Live Center and Steady rest with Point Toolpaths and use mi triggers for all the wait codes and got the transfer done all in the one file. This part had I used the traditional process of calling up a center would have not work why I had to do it with Point toolpaths.

 

I cannot put a rhyme or reason as to when, where and why. I have been doing this for a lot longer than most of the Engineers have been alive I work with. That experience guides me and helps me make some of the decisions I make and not something I can say is always this way or always that way. Each part requires you to think what will get the job done. Use your experience to solve the problem before you and then make what you got work.

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