Toolpath: Stockmodel

[jlw™]

All,

 

I am a bit stumped by this one.  I have a largish .mcx file I'm working on.  I've got roughly 900 ops in this project.  I am having a problem with terribly slow stock model regeneration.  I created a stockmodel toolpath on Monday with about 190 paths applied.  It generated in about 8 minutes.  Since then I have added a few paths to it, copied it and added more.  So all day yesterday and today I can not get it to generate at all.  I am using some custom tools but as I stated they were all fine on Monday/Tuesday.  I also just regenerated about 20 multithread paths simultanneously and it regenerated them in about 10 minutes... probably faster than when I did them one at a time.  I have also regenerated and checked every single path.  Verify works just fine.  I can select all my paths, the original stockmodel and run thru verify just fine.  I left it running last night and still sitting there on "Starting processing."

 

It will not process any stockmodels at all with even one toolpath applied.  It will however create "from solid" just fine.

 

I did try just saving it from Verify but I get "hollow" stl every time I do that.  I would really like to figure out what is going on with my stock model.  I'd love to track the stock condition of this job.

 

The multi-threading manager just sits there on "Starting processing."

 

Any ideas?

[crazy^millman]

Break up the stock model into several stock models is the only thing I have found that works with huge files. Trying to get it all to work with one is the issue. Have a stock model that is your roughing model with maybe just 10 or 20 operations that get most of the meat off the part. Then use that stock model with the nest group of operations. Then so forth and so forth. I might have 5 or 6 stock models for the one file, but trying to have one do it after some point creates issue. You hit the wall so to speak with stock model. It has been documented and demonstrated as to what the limitations are and your working in that area of it. By breaking it up and limiting what all is needed per stock model you will find things work a lot better.

[jlw™]

Thanks, that's what I'm doing.  I've even broken cubing down into four sides... at this point I'm up to about 20 stock models.  None will regenerate.

 

I can't figure out what changed unless I'm just missing something.  The only new tools/holders I've added are not used in a stock model yet.

 

I did just get it to regenerate one model with only 3 paths.  It did it in about 0.003 seconds.  I add the 4th path and it will not do it.  However, when I break that path out and only do it... regenerates faster than I can open the muti-thread manager.  Go figure.

 

Guess I'll break it up even more then.

[?Mark]

"Since then I have added a few paths to it, copied it and added more."

Not sure I'm following. You copied stock model?

When i have problems regenerating stock model it's usually the fault of the original stock. Using an .stl file instead of stock model fixes it almost every time. I also noticed that it happens more often when I use undercutting custom tools.

Not consistent at all, which makes it hard to report. My files are very large as well, using up to 20 stock models in some, but nowhere near the number of toolpaths that you have

Sorry, couldn't be of any help. Please keep us updated, I'm curious 

[gcode]

I've had trouble with STL's created via stock model being hollow also

If you run the same toolpaths in Verify and save that stock model they are usually OK

Then I use those STL to make the next stock model

This sucks because it breaks the associativity of the stock model, but it makes a solid stable file

that will run without issues

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Just to be sure, when you copy the stock model you're telling it to start from the original and just having it process the additional ops right?  The way you phrased it kind of sounds like you were having the copy do all the work from the beginning in one go.

[alexlikesyou]

This is my first post here after lurking for a while but I've had this same issue with stock models. 

 

40ish ops with 5 or 6 stock models and they generate in no time. As soon as I select a pecked hole to add to the stock model it will hang.  If I switch it to drill/counterbore so it goes straight through the stock model will generate just fine.  I started to regen a stock model for a rest rough before lunch.  It went on for nearly an hour before I had to end task to try to get something done.

 

I've had to resort to switching to drill/counterbore then locking the ops after it generates then switching it back.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

I had that problem in X8; I think X9 fixed it.

[alexlikesyou]

I had that problem in X8; I think X9 fixed it.

I'm running the 2017 Beta that was released earlier this week.

[Reko]

I do know this... do not  tighten up your "Path Tolerance" or "Tool Shape Tolerance" in your Stock Models... leave them tolerances alone, or even open them up a few thou.

 

When I first started using Stock Model, I thought a tighter tolerance would give me more accurate models, but it just slowwwwed everything down a lot.

 

Really, I use the stock model for is verification or rest roughing, so over-accurate stock model's really aren't necessary.

[David Conigliaro CNC Software Inc.]

jlw - What you are using the stock models for? Why are you creating them?

[jlw™]

jlw - What you are using the stock models for? Why are you creating them?

Hey Dave, nice to talk to you again. I'm using it for stock recognition in a couple rest paths and also to simply manage my stock condition as I go.

[SlaveCam]

900 operations? That sounds a lot. What is it? Have you tried using Ram-Saver?

[jlw™]

It's a "complicated" casting that weighs ~20,000lbs.

[BenK]

What I have found is the Stock Model toolpath doesn't like reading that many toolpaths at once. I would suggest deleting what you have and starting over but only select 15-20 operations at a time max. Yes you will end up with a lot of stock models but at least they will generate. Also don't include any toolpath that isn't essential to what you need the stock model for.

[David Conigliaro CNC Software Inc.]

To expand on what Ben suggests. Make sure your tolerances are loosened up, after all it's just rest material you're after, some of which will be filtered out using your 'adjustment to stock' in the rest toolpath. There isn't much difference between a rest toolpath using a stock model at .001 and a stock model at .01, other than more processing time! Keeping tolerances inline with parts size and complexity is implied here. Use stock model as a targeted tool. In addition to ensuring you only include toolpaths necessary for the desired rest material shape, try starting with a smaller initial stock shape. Isolate the initial stock shape to just the area you are interested in on these big jobs. For example, just create a block in the area you wish to rest and carve your toolpaths into that. I have also created solids using model prep to identify volumes I wanted to rest and used the solids as initial stock shape with not selected toolpaths for carving. Rest machining is just volume machining, it doesn't matter how you get the stock shape.

Edited April 29, 2016 by David Conigliaro CNC Software Inc.

[crazy^millman]

To expand on what Ben suggests. Make sure your tolerances are loosened up, after all it's just rest material you're after, some of which will be filtered out using your 'adjustment to stock' in the rest toolpath. There isn't much difference between a rest toolpath using a stock model at .001 and a stock model at .01, other than more processing time! Keeping tolerances inline with parts size and complexity is implied here. Use stock model as a targeted tool. In addition to ensuring you only include toolpaths necessary for the desired rest material shape, try starting with a smaller initial stock shape. Isolate the initial stock shape to just the area you are interested in on these big jobs. For example, just create a block in the area you wish to rest and carve your toolpaths into that. I have also created solids using model prep to identify volumes I wanted to rest and used the solids as initial stock shape with not selected toolpaths for carving. Rest machining is just volume machining, it doesn't matter how you get the stock shape.

 

To further explain that I have taken the stock models and saved them to stl and then used a stl editing tool to crop whole section out. That way I can isolate my needed stock to specific refined areas to further reduce calculation times.

[jlw™]

I was going right along saving from verify and all of a sudden I'm getting the hollow stock models again.

 

Thanks for the tips... I had already cut back to 10 ops and 0.02 on tolerances. Starting shape can be pretty generous and I'm comparing in Verify any way.

 

I got it tho, it just took some tinkering.

 

I guess the bigger the physical part the heavier the mesh right? All those extra triangles!

 

I was just afraid it was something I did because it was fine on Monday and on Tuesday it wasn't.

 

Thanks for input from every one!

[BenK]

I was going right along saving from verify and all of a sudden I'm getting the hollow stock models again.

 

Thanks for the tips... I had already cut back to 10 ops and 0.02 on tolerances. Starting shape can be pretty generous and I'm comparing in Verify any way.

 

I got it tho, it just took some tinkering.

 

I guess the bigger the physical part the heavier the mesh right? All those extra triangles!

 

I was just afraid it was something I did because it was fine on Monday and on Tuesday it wasn't.

 

Thanks for input from every one!

 

No it's nothing you did. Stock models are one of those features that's only 80% complete. They need some work but will never receive it because CNC Software's ADD has set in and they are off chasing the next shiny object so to speak. 

[civiceg]

if your getting crazy with a complex tool geometry, it really blows up the stock model calculation. 

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

My current project has 122 ops (with a bunch of surfacing and peck drilling and a little threadmilling) over 22 stock models at .0005" tolerance and works just fine, but the initial stock is only 4.5" x 6" x 0.950".  In my experience the bogginess of stock model goes up exponentially with the stock volume.

[David Conigliaro CNC Software Inc.]

No it's nothing you did. Stock models are one of those features that's only 80% complete. They need some work but will never receive it because CNC Software's ADD has set in and they are off chasing the next shiny object so to speak. 

We do not consider it 80% done. Please refrain from personal attacks on the Company, some people really struggle with ADD and might consider your loose use of the term offensive.

Edited May 2, 2016 by David Conigliaro CNC Software Inc.

[BenK]

We do not consider it 80% done. Please refrain from personal attacks on the Company, some people really struggle with ADD and might consider your loose use of the term offensive.

 

If you consider that a personal attack you have a very loose definition. The comment was an honest assessment of the product as a whole, if you don't see it than you're blind. You want to kick out features that aren't complete and than move on to the next thing before fixing the issues. That has been CNC Software's MO for a long time now.

 

You're the last person that should be talking about personal attacks. You want to play your little games, do it with someone else because I'm not going to put up with your garbage. So don't email me later trying to continue an argument.

[DanielGingras]

The original issue has been resolved.