Core Gouges When Using Surface Toolpaths

[nickzrt81]

I am running x9.  This is a very common issue in my shop and usually shows up when the cut is parallel to an axis. The surface toolpaths leave gouges on core type parts using contour, hybrid, waterline...  This particular electrode was programmed with waterline a 1/8 ball, .005 step, total tolerance .0002, line arc filter min  .005 max 100., slider 70-30.   Can someone tell me how to fix this issue?  Thanks

[duckdogers]

its hard to say without seeing the actual mastercam program

[BoscoDrummer]

Is your NC Precision in your control def. set to more than 4 place decimal?

[mkd]

How's the Y axis encoder on that fadal?

been there done that.

 

Ball bar test will confirm or deny.

[nickzrt81]

The weird thing is that it's fine it's only on moves parellel to the axis. This machine cuts cavity fine but the issues repeat on any machine when they do show up. You can't see it in the picture but it's on all 4 sides of the part but the radius connecting the surfaces are perfect top to bottom. Yes it's set to 4 place.

[crazy^millman]

What kind of machines are you cutting these on? Do they show up in the Verify? I have done molds and other things that require finer detail that that with no issue using Mastercam. Have you tired running the same code with no filter? Top quality machine should eat that simple thing for lunch with no filter. Got a sample file you can share so someone can look over your settings and see if they see the same thing? Sorry, but I am going to have to suspect the machine or the control.

[jlw™]

I always do full retract just for this.

[nickzrt81]

The issue follows the program not the machine. This was done on an old fadal. These same machines cut cavity with no issues.

[nickzrt81]

It's not a retract issue. It's on all 4 sides parellel to the axis.

[Guest]

So we're supposed to diagnose and help solve your issue with no file?

 

Without a file all we can do is guess

[gcode]

Is the cut heavy enough that the endmill could be deflecting?

[Müřlıń®]

I am running x9.  This is a very common issue in my shop and usually shows up when the cut is parallel to an axis. The surface toolpaths leave gouges on core type parts using contour, hybrid, waterline...  This particular electrode was programmed with waterline a 1/8 ball, .005 step, total tolerance .0002, line arc filter min  .005 max 100., slider 70-30.   Can someone tell me how to fix this issue?  Thanks

 

 

Sometimes the filter messes things up...turn it off..run a surface finish contour and see what happens...

 

If it follows the program from machine to machine it is most likely something you are doing..

[crazy^millman]

The issue follows the program not the machine. This was done on an old fadal. These same machines cut cavity with no issues.

 

Why is it so hard to answer some questions? You are asking for help and sorry I am not a mind reader and not in your shop to see everything you are seeing.

 

They are not the same type of shape and they would not act the same way when being cut on the machine. Amazing how times people come asking for help only to know better than anyone trying to offer help. I have no clue what your speeds and feeds are. How much stock you are leaving. How much the tool could be running out. How far is the tool sticking out. Or any number of a 100 different things. I can only go by my experience cutting more complex and difficult parts that what you put up to come up with my best answer. If I an 1000's others can make it happen and you are not willing to give us enough information to help you solve your problem then how are we supposed to help you solve it?

 

Issue follows you from machine to machine looking exactly the same, but not like your verify should be a huge clue not the NC code being used, but the operations before the finishing. Does verify shows the same exact thing then you go back and figure out why. When you do the compare in Verify what are your results? When you use more tolerance what does the color band look like? When you less tolerance what does it look like? I have cut optical quality molds on Fadal's before using Mastercam, but they had been maintained and ball bar checked routinely. Part of the 100s of questions I would ask if I were on site trying to figure out what could be going on. Don't like the answers then provide us more information then we can wrap our brains around what you are seeing to try to come up with the best answer.

[crazy^millman]

What was the outcome of your research into the problem?

[motor-vater]

I was having this same problem just yesterday, when fooling around on a pyramid shaped part that I am running test cuts on. Found it happening in Hybrid, scallop, and most of the surface tool paths I was playing with. Finally went old school and just created a pocketing program and projected it onto the surface. Worked like a charm, not sure it would work in your case, but I am positive it is one little setting somewhere or something I need to uncheck in the toolpath. I'm not very smart and have only been using mastercam for about 8 years, luckly for me I am self employed so I don't have to fire myself for wasting 6 hours of company time on a Saturday... For what its worth 5 axis some of us don't understand 90 percent of what mastercam does so getting frustrated with us is similar to beating up a retarded kid! lol

[Teh Bear without Brains kinda idiot]

It can be filtering issue but I think it is machine issue

Whe you have an old machine with big backlash it happens when you move

in both directions instead of one direction with constant backlash

 

draw th e big rectangle turn it 45 degrees and mill with finish mill

If you have romb istead of  than you have big backlash

[crazy^millman]

I was having this same problem just yesterday, when fooling around on a pyramid shaped part that I am running test cuts on. Found it happening in Hybrid, scallop, and most of the surface tool paths I was playing with. Finally went old school and just created a pocketing program and projected it onto the surface. Worked like a charm, not sure it would work in your case, but I am positive it is one little setting somewhere or something I need to uncheck in the toolpath. I'm not very smart and have only been using mastercam for about 8 years, luckly for me I am self employed so I don't have to fire myself for wasting 6 hours of company time on a Saturday... For what its worth 5 axis some of us don't understand 90 percent of what mastercam does so getting frustrated with us is similar to beating up a retarded kid! lol

 

Well I was that kid at one time and I was the one that his butt kicked and had many never wanting to show me anything to help me. I don't understanding everything about Mastercam, but what I have learned I learned through trial and error and doing. I am no one special and I work or myself also. I have spent those 6 hours or 30 hours figuring stuff out. I have been the handle turner, floor sweeper and floor moper along with wiping down the machines and sweeping up the chips. I have my share of complaints and have voiced my frustrations over the years on this forum, but I humbled myself shut my mouth and listened when someone was offering advise. I have been doing this or 30 years and I listen to someone who has been machining parts for 2 years.

 

FYI the people who are not what society considers mentally capable and calls the word you use are very bright and wonderful people. They can love and be amazing in ways most can never understand or get. I am that guy who gets them and connects with them on their level. I am not beating anyone up by putting out some common sense ideas and approach. In your struggle with your part that gave bad results I would be on the horn to my Mastercam dealer getting to the bottom of the issue. I would send you file, part and the results and demand an explanation why. If you feel so strongly the software is not capable of doing the correct job then back up. Go to source and prove your case. I guess that is what I see as the different. I have done that very thing. I have no issue if I 100% believe I am correct putting everything out there and saying I 100% believe this. Has the machine been ball bar tested is not an unreasonable request. I asked intelligent question to help get to the bottom of the issue and like I have seen for many years on this forum are the drive by problems. Want someone to agree with something and when they don't we are picking on people. Really???? I can't even believe you would make such a comment.

[motor-vater]

Well I was that kid at one time and I was the one that his butt kicked and had many never wanting to show me anything to help me. I don't understanding everything about Mastercam, but what I have learned I learned through trial and error and doing. I am no one special and I work or myself also. I have spent those 6 hours or 30 hours figuring stuff out. I have been the handle turner, floor sweeper and floor moper along with wiping down the machines and sweeping up the chips. I have my share of complaints and have voiced my frustrations over the years on this forum, but I humbled myself shut my mouth and listened when someone was offering advise. I have been doing this or 30 years and I listen to someone who has been machining parts for 2 years.

 

FYI the people who are not what society considers mentally capable and calls the word you use are very bright and wonderful people. They can love and be amazing in ways most can never understand or get. I am that guy who gets them and connects with them on their level. I am not beating anyone up by putting out some common sense ideas and approach. In your struggle with your part that gave bad results I would be on the horn to my Mastercam dealer getting to the bottom of the issue. I would send you file, part and the results and demand an explanation why. If you feel so strongly the software is not capable of doing the correct job then back up. Go to source and prove your case. I guess that is what I see as the different. I have done that very thing. I have no issue if I 100% believe I am correct putting everything out there and saying I 100% believe this. Has the machine been ball bar tested is not an unreasonable request. I asked intelligent question to help get to the bottom of the issue and like I have seen for many years on this forum are the drive by problems. Want someone to agree with something and when they don't we are picking on people. Really???? I can't even believe you would make such a comment.

I was just making a funny buddy, I have read many of your posts over the years and have found many solutions in those posts. And this post has given me even more ammo, I actually was content with my toolpath adaption but it does not solve the issue, just a work around. I always forget that I can contact mastercam, after all I do pay a small fortune for my chair. BEST IDEA EVER! Thanks buddy

[crazy^millman]

I was just making a funny buddy, I have read many of your posts over the years and have found many solutions in those posts. And this post has given me even more ammo, I actually was content with my toolpath adaption but it does not solve the issue, just a work around. I always forget that I can contact mastercam, after all I do pay a small fortune for my chair. BEST IDEA EVER! Thanks buddy

 

Pete, okay then I apologize for being quick to rush to answer the way I did. :vava:

 

I want to help anyone I can and if anything I say helped then thanks for letting me know I appreciate it. :clap:

[motor-vater]

No worries Buddy, I have a sense of humor that always seems to get misinterpreted on forums. But in the spirit of the situation I am going to try to attempt to post my file so that others can chime in while I'm waiting for my rep to get back to me. As it turns out when I turned up the precision on my verify the gouges were there. My graphics card must suck cause the most I could get away with was a factor of 2.5 and that took about 5 minutes to digest.. lol

[jlw™]

I bet a dollar if you do full vertical retract it goes away.

[motor-vater]

I want to say I tried that, but it was a long day of yelling at the screen.. lol

 The tool paths to look at are in Machine group 1 #'s 4 and 5... And I know I am an unorganized mess... lol

Uncle Jimmy.Z2G

[motor-vater]

JLW I "Might" owe u a dollar! FML... lol I'll run another test cut, this has turned into a learning experience not a job.. lol

[motor-vater]

Here's some pics

[motor-vater]

And with the projected pocket