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Wierd stock model behavior


So not a Guru
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7 minutes ago, JParis said:

It's always about making sure your stock models follow your original plane...I haven't looked at the file but if this is a follow on model to a previous stock  model, make sure the planes match for the stock model ops

You nailed it. Planes for Stock models are not as good idea from what I have experienced. Don't use planes and your golden. 

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18 minutes ago, JParis said:

Change it to TOP.. you are in what looks to be a derivative of a TOP orientation

That worked, but the plane I was using was not, exactly, derived from Top. It was created from geometry, albeit using the same matrix as Top.

So, is what you and Ron are saying is that all stock models need to be created using top as the plane?

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Just now, So not a Guru said:

So, is what you and Ron are saying is that all stock models need to be created using top as the plane?

Yes and no....it really comes down to the starting plane.....but if you're working normally as you are in this file, in the vast majority of cases it'll be TOP.

I'm not sure there's really a hard, fast rule and when they look wonky, usually it's attributable to an improper plane 

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As mentioned, the plane will usually be Top. Note that the below all applies to Stock Model Operations, and not Stock Setup. (Which I often completely ignore for mill programming.)

If you're using a solid body as the stock for the stock model, always use Top for your plane. This is because all bodies that exist in the file are considered to be in World Top, and the solid body is already likely rotated/translated into position around your part, so you do NOT want to apply a translation/rotation by changing planes.

You can do some trick plane changes in subsequent stock model ops to then rotate that stock model around to mimic if you were flipping the stock to a second vise, or rotating about a tombstone, but this is difficult to visualize. I recommend not adding source operations and playing around with just changing the planes in the stock model op and regenerating to understand what the rotation is doing. 

Programming best practice (excluding tombstone machining or vise flips with things like dual vises where you want to see both orientations at once) is usually to keep the part model/stock model in one orientation in space, and 'rotate' the fixturing around it as necessary to mimic setup orientation changes. With this in mind, and starting from a solid body that you'll be using as stock, always use Top for plane orientation.

Hope this helps expand a bit on plane choice reasoning for Stock Model Orientations!

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4 minutes ago, Chally72 said:

As mentioned, the plane will usually be Top. Note that the below all applies to Stock Model Operations, and not Stock Setup. (Which I often completely ignore for mill programming.)

If you're using a solid body as the stock for the stock model, always use Top for your plane. This is because all bodies that exist in the file are considered to be in World Top, and the solid body is already likely rotated/translated into position around your part, so you do NOT want to apply a translation/rotation by changing planes.

You can do some trick plane changes in subsequent stock model ops to then rotate that stock model around to mimic if you were flipping the stock to a second vise, or rotating about a tombstone, but this is difficult to visualize. I recommend not adding source operations and playing around with just changing the planes in the stock model op and regenerating to understand what the rotation is doing. 

Programming best practice (excluding tombstone machining or vise flips with things like dual vises where you want to see both orientations at once) is usually to keep the part model/stock model in one orientation in space, and 'rotate' the fixturing around it as necessary to mimic setup orientation changes. With this in mind, and starting from a solid body that you'll be using as stock, always use Top for plane orientation.

Hope this helps expand a bit on plane choice reasoning for Stock Model Orientations!

As good an explanation as I've seen...

It's also why for for my HMC programming, I still rely on stl's  :)

:cheers:

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once you get a grasp for how the software uses planes for stock models you can move on to using stock models for more advanced things like we had discussed on this topic recently 

 

using some custom created planes with stock models can accomplish other things like rotating or moving the stock model to new locations as we have discussed in that other forum post. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/18/2019 at 12:40 PM, Chally72 said:

As mentioned, the plane will usually be Top. Note that the below all applies to Stock Model Operations, and not Stock Setup. (Which I often completely ignore for mill programming.)

If you're using a solid body as the stock for the stock model, always use Top for your plane. This is because all bodies that exist in the file are considered to be in World Top, and the solid body is already likely rotated/translated into position around your part, so you do NOT want to apply a translation/rotation by changing planes.

You can do some trick plane changes in subsequent stock model ops to then rotate that stock model around to mimic if you were flipping the stock to a second vise, or rotating about a tombstone, but this is difficult to visualize. I recommend not adding source operations and playing around with just changing the planes in the stock model op and regenerating to understand what the rotation is doing. 

Programming best practice (excluding tombstone machining or vise flips with things like dual vises where you want to see both orientations at once) is usually to keep the part model/stock model in one orientation in space, and 'rotate' the fixturing around it as necessary to mimic setup orientation changes. With this in mind, and starting from a solid body that you'll be using as stock, always use Top for plane orientation.

Hope this helps expand a bit on plane choice reasoning for Stock Model Orientations!

Can you please expand on how you would handle "tombstone machining and vise flips"? I have a method that works, but I would certainly like a more efficient route if there is one.  

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