Upgrading to Mastercam 2020?

[Guest]

I was hoping to get some honest feedback as of right now If the pros outweight the cons to upgrade from 2018 to 2020.

The feedback I have gotten from the CNC programmers at my job is that the speed of mastercam increased from mastercam x9 to 2018 but the issues rose significantly. Specifically instances of "Nci Corruption" during toolpath import or unrelated geometry manipulations while nesting. As well as rapid collisions not being picked up in machine sim. Any feedback would be a big help.

[Colin Gilchrist]

I honestly thought 2018 was the least stable of the 20xx series. I had serious issues with duplicate geometry creation in both 2017 and 2018. Functions like Surface Extend would routinely make duplicate surfaces. I dreaded having to do heavy surface manipulation, and would sometimes break down and export STEP or IGES files, bring them into X9, fix the models, and then Toolpath in 2018.

2019 was the first decently stable release for me. 2020 has gotten better still, but I've heard some other people have issues, especially with Planes. 

One thing I do is never use the 'Duplicate plane' function. This ties the planes together so if you update one, it will mess up the other. I use the "create relative to", and in that dialog, I just create the "Top" plane. This gives me an independent duplicate plane.

[cncappsjames]

IF you choose to update, make sure your Windows Install is up do date. 

I would follow this method just to be sure. I found I had some updates that did not get run naturally. 

Running Windows Update From PowerShell

Also, make sure your graphics drivers are up to date as well.

It's been stable but, launch time and shutdown time have gone through the roof relatively speaking. 2019 was under 15 seconds to launch and get to work. 2020 is running around a minute plus. Stock models, if you've got threads in it... lookout. I suspect there's no difference version to version on that issue because threads are nasty consumers of bandwidth.

All that said, overall, I've nearly always found keeping my CAM software up to date outweighs the issues that crop up. Bottom line, all software has issues. Some developers are better than others handling that quagmire. Speaking of quagmire, I had a discussion with a CNC employee regarding a recommendation and he pointed something out I forget from time to time; 2,600 people makes up only 1% of Mastercam users. 2,600!  That's a LOT of damn programming workstations to consider or affect when making a change. They still need to do better though.  

JM2CFWIW

[Guest]

Thank you both, I have definetly seen the duplicate entity issues Colin speaks of, I will have to read up on the planes issue. James , I will forward the windows information to It , The stock model issue should not affect us.

[JParis]

I am always on the bleeding edge with Mastercam....that said, it's been a LONGAZZtime since a version had an issue so bad I couldn't work with it...that was the original release of Mastercam X

Every single version has some kind of issue....and this is where you separate the "get it done" people from the rest....a get it done person is going to work with what they have for a tool.

I've known good 'grammers who can get tripped up and I've known average guys that just get it done.....it's ultimately on the end user to decide who they want to be.

JM2C YMMV

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, JParis said:

I am always on the bleeding edge with Mastercam....that said, it's been a LONGAZZtime since a version had an issue so bad I couldn't work with it...that was the original release of Mastercam X

Every single version has some kind of issue....and this is where you separate the "get it done" people from the rest....a get it done person is going to work with what they have for a tool.

I've known good 'grammers who can get tripped up and I've known average guys that just get it done.....it's ultimately on the end user to decide who they want to be.

JM2C YMMV

If I understand correctly Mr.Paris, you are saying this version is usable but may require some "skill" to handle.

[gcode]

There are dozens of different categories of Mastercam programmers and every programmer uses Mastercam in a different way.

For example, I have not used Nesting once on my entire career, so if I said I had never had trouble with Nesting, the comment would be

accurate, and meaningless.  

My milling work is 4X contouring and light  3d milling of very large parts on large 4X and 5X double rotary HBM's 

We have one line of part that involves 5 axis milling of very large vanes. I use 20% of the Module Works suite a lot and the rest, almost never.

On the lathe side, simple 2D horizontal work, complex and detailed VTL and VTL mill/turn up to Ø30ft.

We have one 5X Okuma VTM. Parts on this run from relatively simple to complex aerospace rocket engine parts hogged out of Inconel.

This is probably the most difficult machine I program and the one Mastercam struggles with the most.

Mastercam can do it, but it is difficult, detail dependent and very easy to make a bone headed mistake. 

We are bringing a Mori 5X horizonal lathe early online next year and I suspect I will have similar issues with it.

The point is that Mastercam is a Jack-of-all-trades software. It can do almost everything, some really well, some, not so much.

I have been a Mastercam beta tester for 20 years now.

Every time we do the first public release, there is an avalanche of new bugs exposed and people screaming

at CNC and the beta testers. I am amazed at the problems people find that I had no clue about.

That's because they are using Mastercam in different ways than I am.

There is no way any of us can say you won't have trouble with MC2020 cause we don't use it like you do.

For me personally I consider it this best and most stable version of Mastercam yet. 

What I normally do with a new release is step in gently.

I will do a project to 85-90% complete in the current version, archive that file, then try to finish the project in the new release.

If it goes well, great. If I have serious trouble or hit a wall, I can fall back on the 85% legacy file and get the job done without too much

time lost.

 

[JParis]

45 minutes ago, peter ~ said:

If I understand correctly Mr.Paris, you are saying this version is usable but may require some "skill" to handle.

No.

I am saying EVERY version is usable but will require some skill.

 

Tom,

That's a very fair assessment of the overall picture

 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, gcode said:

I will do a project to 85-90% complete in the current version, archive that file, then try to finish the project in the new release.

If it goes well, great. If I have serious trouble or hit a wall, I can fall back on the 85% legacy file and get the job done without too much

time lost.

That is a good Idea, although more often than not my programming time is only a minute or two. I spend most of time in machine sim.

 

17 minutes ago, gcode said:

For example, I have not used Nesting once on my entire career, so if I said I had never had trouble with Nesting, the comment would be

accurate, and meaningless.  

Nesting is evil. It can give you efficient results for space consumption on the "sheet" you are working on, but a human can almost always make better use of the space. Nesting also mangles toolpaths being recognition sometimes without warning. Dropped sections of chains is commonplace . Parts being labeled as clustered then collided toolpaths can also occur without any notification. Due to company politics we are obliged to use the function.Also new in 2018 any manipulation of notes or trim geometry with tool assignment mangles the operation nci. 

[Guest]

There was one case where I calculated the use of nesting was costing twice the material cost for the lifetime of a project and when I wrote a report about it I was told it's very political issue and we have to continue using nesting. I was able to wrap a traditional program in the nesting function to "cheat" the system.

[Guest]

I am planning to work on an api solution to enhance the nesting function to where we need it to be. Also to automate the process of course since that's my project.

[cncappsjames]

My last Beta version was 2017 or 2018. Probably 2017.

My last unusable (for me) Beta version was, maybe X9. It was actually not even Mastercam's fault. 3D Connexion broke something in their drivers for that Beta Version and it wasn't fixed for a few Bata cycles.  Even my CAMplete was broken. That was a ROUGH time. May as well have cut off one of my arms.

 

My favorite saying is there are 2 kinds of programmers; those that ask their software to do stuff and those that TELL their software to do stuff. Be the latter and things will go MUCH better.

[David Colin]

On 12/22/2019 at 8:36 AM, cncappsjames said:

It's been stable but, launch time and shutdown time have gone through the roof relatively speaking. 2019 was under 15 seconds to launch and get to work. 2020 is running around a minute plus.

My hardware seat is a few years old and not state-of-the-art (Xeon [email protected]/32Gb/SSD/K4200). However, 2020 cold launch time is below 30 secs (a 2nd launch around 20secs). Sure, 2019 is a little faster to launch (20sec/15sec) though.

Perhaps there is an issue with a specific Mastercam start task that is slowing down (nethasp/custom menus) and should be investigated

[cncappsjames]

4 hours ago, David Colin said:

Perhaps there is an issue with a specific Mastercam start task that is slowing down (nethasp/custom menus) and should be investigated

As always, that is my first inclination. That the problem is on my side. But for the life of me, I have l have tried everything I can think of. Thay bag of tricks is very deep. Incomplete probably because nobody can know everything but still very deep nevertheless. Startup is spotless. No stop signs, no cautions. Just the expected "i" inside. 

 

If you've got some ideas I am ALL ears.

[David Colin]

I guess you already looked at mastercam events log after startup and there is not error...

I have no idea where to look for and i know that can be a difficult task to track what is wrong.

 

[cncappsjames]

Correct. No errors on startup. All drivers are up to date. Tomorrow after work, I am seriously considering a wipe of my boot drive and do a fresh install without all the Dell bloatware. 

[gcode]

5 hours ago, cncappsjames said:

Correct. No errors on startup. All drivers are up to date. Tomorrow after work, I am seriously considering a wipe of my boot drive and do a fresh install without all the Dell bloatware. 

I've attached an excel spread sheet made by saving the Event Log of a clean MC2020 launch on my new rig

MC was launched by clicking the desktop icon and It's right at 20 seconds

I would compare it to your clean launch event log and see where the extra time is.

Maybe that will give you a clue as to what you might do to fix the problem.

 

McEventLog_12-23-2019_11-15-54.xlsx

[crazy^millman]

I am at 21 seconds on start up. 

[neurosis]

LOL> I got 17 seconds on the start up and was about to start peacocking - and then this

 

[cncappsjames]

I went through my Task Manager and saw some apps I use sparingly at most (LogMeIn and a few others), and uninstalled them Rebooted and now it's down to 26 seconds to become usable. Back to acceptable. 

 

[Greg Williams]

30 seconds here. I have a Dell 5530 laptop

[Colin Gilchrist]

On 12/22/2019 at 9:21 AM, content creator said:

I am planning to work on an api solution to enhance the nesting function to where we need it to be. Also to automate the process of course since that's my project.

Peter,

Since Nesting is such a huge part of your routine, I'd be remiss if I didn't recommend Gerber Systems.

Fun fact: Gerber Systems is where John Summers (Father of Jack, John, and Brian) got his start. They make some really great software for nesting patterns. The company headquarters is also almost literally a "stone's throw" from CNC Software in Tolland. 

They built pattern cutting machines, but also produce specific Pattern Nesting Software. 

-----

For Mastercam Nesting, are you ensuring that your Chains are built of only Lines and Arcs? Splines would (and should) give you quite the headache, since you are trying to 'rotate' a mathematical equation.

Are you using the "True Shape" nesting?

If yes, what are you using for 'degree tolerance' on the Nesting rotation? (Available with User-Defined.)

I think we tried both 0.5 degrees, 0.25 degrees, and 0.1 degrees, and got great "packing" results, but the algorithm tool a long time to execute. (30 seconds, to several minutes in some cases).

I would bet you are probably already familiar with the Nesting Config options, but I thought I would mention the User Defined option.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

For Mastercam Nesting, are you ensuring that your Chains are built of only Lines and Arcs? Splines would (and should) give you quite the headache, since you are trying to 'rotate' a mathematical equation.

The lines and arcs are being dropped frequently, leaving a partial chain instead of closed chains, causing scrap parts. Which is why I opted to have our geometry drawn as splines. Perhaps I need to some performance tests splines vs lines and arcs based on what you are saying.

 

23 minutes ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

f yes, what are you using for 'degree tolerance' on the Nesting rotation? (Available with User-Defined.)

Usually 1 degree if grain direction or ribbon direction are not required. The user defined is set to the minimum .0034

 

 

[Guest]

Is the gerber a mastercam add on

[Colin Gilchrist]

7 minutes ago, content creator said:

Is the gerber a mastercam add on

No, it is separate software, which would require some sort of "input" geometry. And I'm not sure what the cost is, but I bet it isn't cheap...