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The dumbest thing I have ever seen in a mastercam post


pro grammer
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13 minutes ago, byte me said:

The Resellers depend on post sales to survive, hence, they benefit most when you buy a new post for each new machine.

I don’t think is a true idea of the dealers. The post represents a small part of their sales. 
 

7 minutes ago, byte me said:

What do you mean?

A good post is the lifeblood of any business why I learned years ago how to make the changes i needed to what I needed. I shifted into contract programming full time 8 years ago verses on the slide like I have done since 1995 I got away from doing as much with posts. I leave the heavy lifting up to the professionals. I do a lot of support for companies just getting their posts with technical implementation methods and processes. Examples being CDS, options and types of methods they need to support helping them understand best practices with posts and the such. I do my best work focusing on what I am good at and they are the experts so I trust them and allow them do it. 

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2 minutes ago, Joe777 said:

Yet, lets not reinvent the wheel.

It's a big problem, that's for sure, hiding knowledge for profit, creates stagnation imo, when it comes to technology, that won't change however, because companies exist to make profit, so if the bare bones of getting a complex post are a well-ish kept secret, it wouldnt make sense to share the knowledge for free.

5 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

don’t think is a true idea of the dealers. The post represents a small part of their sales. 

Then why the rules against asking for others to share posts that they own?

Chook and Nethooks for example can be requested and distributed for free, it seems a bit sketchy to me, jm2c.

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11 minutes ago, Tim Johnson said:

Most customers will benefit as much or more than the post developers through savings in time needed to build their own and getting a better post.

Maybe, I try not to outsource work if I can, it saves big money if you are self sufficient, as for the risk, there is always risk.

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4 minutes ago, byte me said:

It's a big problem, that's for sure, hiding knowledge for profit, creates stagnation imo, when it comes to technology, that won't change however, because companies exist to make profit, so if the bare bones of getting a complex post are a well-ish kept secret, it wouldnt make sense to share the knowledge for free.

Then why the rules against asking for others to share posts that they own?

Chook and Nethooks for example can be requested and distributed for free, it seems a bit sketchy to me, jm2c.

Because part of keeping people using it legally is not giving away everything is my take on it. The generic posts can program just about any piece of equipment out here. There is enough shared to get the average user up and running with just a standard Mastercam purchase for free. It is the more advanced higher level stuff that is not free for all. Hard to stay in business giving it all away. Dig into NX, CATIA, CREO and see how much of that is free. People don’t own Mastercam they lease it and the posts are just in all reality an extension of that lease. The post developers worked hard to gain their knowledge to earn a living from and if it is given away how will they recoup those years of hard work and effort? People can pay $200k-$7 million for a machine can not afford a post? Think about the number of man hours put into Mastercam since it was started. Posts have hard work and effort put into them as well. You are free to give everything you do away, but if you didn’t have a way to earn a living how long could you do that before you needed to be paid? Not really different the issue is too many companies cheap out and think the software is the end all without doing the correct research. I know of 20 companies who have gotten new equipment in the last 6 months. Every one of them got a post for their machines. Many got Mastercam posts, but others got ICAM and NX posts. The one ICAM post would have bought 10 of the other posts. The one NX post would buy a company a fully loaded seat of Mastercam to put it in prospective. Every single one of those companies are staying busy. Why is that? They invested and did it the correct way. 

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10 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

You are free to give everything you do away, but if you didn’t have a way to earn a living how long could you do that before you needed to be paid

 

34 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:
48 minutes ago, byte me said:

The Resellers depend on post sales to survive, hence, they benefit most when you buy a new post for each new machine.

I don’t think is a true idea of the dealers. The post represents a small part of their sales

I'm not expecting them to give anything away, I might point out however, that a lot of the paid software we use today, is powered by open source libraries, such as freeglut for opengl, that we would be a lot worse off without.

I do my part to contribute to the community by sharing source code rather than trying to monetize it, because I think the benefits are greater that way, I guess there are two schools of thought here, are there pirates who have benefitted off my work? Sure, but so have many legit users. Food for thought.

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1 hour ago, byte me said:

I do my part to contribute to the community by sharing source code rather than trying to monetize it, because I think the benefits are greater that way, I guess there are two schools of thought here, are there pirates who have benefitted off my work? Sure, but so have many legit users. Food for thought.

For some of the folks out there, all of it is just theoretical. At the end of the day it's the end user that provides all the end feed back. It's just wrong to keep the feed back as a tribal knowledge and to monetize on it as if it was something that you have invented yourself!

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On 10/3/2020 at 4:16 PM, byte me said:

I do my part to contribute to the community by sharing source code rather than trying to monetize it, because I think the benefits are greater that way, I guess there are two schools of thought here, are there pirates who have benefitted off my work? Sure, but so have many legit users. Food for thought.

As do I for the last 17 years.

On 10/3/2020 at 5:34 PM, Joe777 said:

For some of the folks out there, all of it is just theoretical. At the end of the day it's the end user that provides all the end feed back. It's just wrong to keep the feed back as a tribal knowledge and to monetize on it as if it was something that you have invented yourself!

Well you don't know me very well and that is not how I operate.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/23/2020 at 7:40 AM, pro grammer said:

pe              #End of line
      e$

pfe             #Forced end of line
      *e$

pn              #Line numbering
      n$

pfn             #Forced line numbering
      *n$

 

 

Yeah. This takes the cake for both arrogance and stupidity.

This was a rough-in to handle 2 end of line special characters in a simple way. Mastercam MP has a way of easily adding an end of line character, and if memory serves a way of adding a 2nd end of line character that is less than intuitive. This was done to allow 2 characters or more and/or a character and a special UNIX end of line format easier to handle. While Windows uses CR/LF, Unix was LF only. You can suppress the CR/LF then add the LF back in, but what is you need the LF and a $ at the end of every line, etc. Did someone just whisper Biesse RT480 in my ear? I thought this was a clean way to rough-in special end of line character and line feed handling. And I'm not sure it's ever been used.

So, I agree it looks ridiculous, but a lot of careful thought and planning went in there. 😆

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/24/2020 at 2:34 PM, pro grammer said:

I won't read any more than your first line because I know where you are headed. Here is an example. Mastercam has a feature called "dynamic milling". Other companies have pretty much the same feature. Every company names their feature something else. Use the same wording. If mastercam has a feature called grooving would everyone else have to come up with a different name like "3 sided stock removal"? It's ridiculous. And, I completely understand why you guys fail to see the logic and automatically jump on the 16 year old, adolescent, insult wagon because you fail to strive for uniformity. I would imagine you personally have been machining for many years. You seem to have much skill. However, people such as you never strove to set a standard. That is why China is kicking your butts. To me it is arrogance. Everybody wants their finger prints all over every part of a workpiece. It is wasteful.

So, let me ask you this. How many fanuc controlled machines have you setup and operated? 100? Why is it that every manufacturer insists on putting the buttons (coolant, tailstock, whatever) in a different position? There is no excuse for it, other than arrogance or idiocy. I should be able to go from a Mori to a Kia to a Puma with a funuc control and have the same button in the same place.

Do you people even understand the philosophy of ISO or ANSI? If so why do you think that machinists are too good to follow the same mentality? Arrogance? It's kind of like every few years some brilliant, cubicle dweller at MC decides it time to change all the icons in an effort to fit in with the Jones'.

All of those killer smart phones we enjoy these days that are made in China... The physical buttons, fingerprint readers etc are all in different locations.  If they are Android phones, every company uses their own ROM.  Some are mono speaker some are stereo, different SOC's, different screens, batteries, colors, etc.  You see where I'm going with this.  If there was no variety, there would be limitations for us.  Each machine tool or even CAM system has it's own niche where it excels.  The differences give us choices, advantages etc.  If we go the socialism route with all machine tools, cutting tools, CAM systems being equal we will have what socialism generates: shared misery, but at least they are all equal.

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  • 2 months later...
1 hour ago, PAnderson said:

If I am not mistaken, this Pro Grammer dude is over on Practical Machinist stirring up a s*#t storm against Mastercam. Another John Bangeur.

More power to him. I have a head to head challenge right now with NX on some Inconel 718 roughing. 800 hours of roughing and I think we can get it down to 400. Now they let me get the tools and machine I want and I think we can get it down to 200 hours.

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On 2/15/2021 at 4:44 PM, crazy^millman said:

 Inconel 718 roughing. 800 hours of roughing and I think we can get it down to 400. Now they let me get the tools and machine I want and I think we can get it down to 200 hours.

Truthfully, I'd probably quit a job over this.  It's amazing how fast you can rough 718 but it's expensive.  No one wants to pay what it costs.

No one is willing to put the time and consideration in that it takes.  The heat from ceramics often warps and stresses causing more relief.

So many of the new tech end mills will literally rayp inconel but it's expensive.

You also have the inconsistencies - one piece of stock and hi performance end mill will run great for 4 hours.  Next piece and you go through 5 endmeills with about 20 min tool life before you find another 4 hour end mill.

 

Truthfully though, I'd take inco over heat treated aermet any day.

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44 minutes ago, jlw™ said:

Truthfully, I'd probably quit a job over this.  It's amazing how fast you can rough 718 but it's expensive.  No one wants to pay what it costs.

No one is willing to put the time and consideration in that it takes.  The heat from ceramics often warps and stresses causing more relief.

So many of the new tech end mills will literally rayp inconel but it's expensive.

You also have the inconsistencies - one piece of stock and hi performance end mill will run great for 4 hours.  Next piece and you go through 5 endmeills with about 20 min tool life before you find another 4 hour end mill.

 

Truthfully though, I'd take inco over heat treated aermet any day.

Wish me luck then. We've just won a few parts (1 or 2 each of each p/n), our 1st foray into inconel. We bid them pretty high, with a large tooling cost included, so I hope we can be profitable.

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Good luck and I hope so too!  Big parts or small parts?  Smaller parts, like vise work tend to be much easier imo than parts that take up a 30x60 table.  Worst part I ever had took a 560lb pc of stock down to 22lb finished part with all kinds of area for warp and stress and thing walls for chatter.

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12 minutes ago, jlw™ said:

Good luck and I hope so too!  Big parts or small parts?  Smaller parts, like vise work tend to be much easier imo than parts that take up a 30x60 table.  Worst part I ever had took a 560lb pc of stock down to 22lb finished part with all kinds of area for warp and stress and thing walls for chatter.

Sounds Like The Job from H@@L

:coffee:

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6 hours ago, jlw™ said:

Good luck and I hope so too!  Big parts or small parts?  Smaller parts, like vise work tend to be much easier imo than parts that take up a 30x60 table.  Worst part I ever had took a 560lb pc of stock down to 22lb finished part with all kinds of area for warp and stress and thing walls for chatter.

They are all fairly small, the blanks are 3: dia. bar x 2.5" long. I,m going to dovetail one end and run them in our Variaxis.

Yeah, I recently took on a pretty large titanium job that removed 90+° of the billet. Holey-moly did that take a lot of run time! Another lesson learned.

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1 hour ago, So not a Guru said:

They are all fairly small, the blanks are 3: dia. bar x 2.5" long. I,m going to dovetail one end and run them in our Variaxis.

Yeah, I recently took on a pretty large titanium job that removed 90+° of the billet. Holey-moly did that take a lot of run time! Another lesson learned.

The Run times are long, but if you can do if profitably with your tooling and machine time, it can be very profitable

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