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5ax with pallets


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51 minutes ago, cncappsjames said:

A little smaller (350mm envelope) with 10 Pallets and 90 tools.... Matsuura MX-330 PC10

 

Do either of you guys have any hands on with these? I see it shares the same method of retention as a kitamura, my concern is the same as it was @ imts...repeatability of these. I cannot believe that Lang vise repeats like it currently does on our tsudakomos , due to the key orientation of using cat style retention of the platters.   Our Lang platter and vises will consistently hold tenths between jobs and weeks on end.  Thoughts? We use a ton of fixtures, so one part load to the next...or 6 pallets full must be near identical.

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Find a machine tool company you trust for good support / service and just add aftermarket automation. In my case I went with Grob ( I have 3 of their machines now... Gen 0 G350 120 tools, Gen 1 G350 200 tools, Gen 2 G550 330 tools) all being fed by Erowa robots of different sizes and capabilities. 

 

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https://us.dmgmori.com/products/machines/milling/5-axis-milling/dmu/dmu-50

 

One of these with their PH systems would be pretty bang up!!  I ran a DMU_50 with HSK 20K spindle and man that was a fun machine to run!!

The probe routines are top notch and a very accurate and fast machine.  The one flaw that I saw with it was chip handling,  if you are really getting after it the conveyor had a hard time keeping up.  Oh yeah, and don't break an endmill.  If it hits the door glass and breaks it, it's $10,000 to replace!!!!

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Another good choice is DMU 50 3rd gen with PH 150 (up to 24 pallets). Or get it with Erowa system (compact 80? or any other...)

The big plus here is a choice of controls: Siemens, Heidenhain and Fanuc.

For 5 axis I'd definitely go with either Siemens or Heidenhain...it's just freaking fast plus probing is second to none.

 

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1 hour ago, Mark@dmg-mori said:

Another good choice is DMU 50 3rd gen with PH 150 (up to 24 pallets). Or get it with Erowa system (compact 80? or any other...)

The big plus here is a choice of controls: Siemens, Heidenhain and Fanuc.

For 5 axis I'd definitely go with either Siemens or Heidenhain...it's just freaking fast plus probing is second to none.

 

Cooled table bearings...now we’re talking. Any idea on accuracy specs for the machine, nothing listed on DMG’s site. We have been looking at a Makino DA300, and a Doosan DNM3505ax with glass scales. Makino has there own cell, the Doosan would use a Bot or erowa, I guess the Doosan is pre plumbed for hyd work holding. Is the Siemens or Heid that awesome? I do like our 31i’s, but I’ve always been a fanuc guy, until we made that one Haas purchase 😂. It serves a purpose.  Thanks for all the feedback thus far guys, hope you are all doing well.

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throwing this one into the ring:

DMG Mori can't touch the price when combined with a 7 pallet pool with highly accurate 3R pallet interface or match the Heidenhain control, IMNSHO. Every modern Mikron comes with Heidy glass scales.

 

it'll take a cut too.

"ally" for newbeee. hahaha

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1 hour ago, Eric@HorsepowerInc. said:

Cooled table bearings...now we’re talking. Any idea on accuracy specs for the machine, nothing listed on DMG’s site. We have been looking at a Makino DA300, and a Doosan DNM3505ax with glass scales. Makino has there own cell, the Doosan would use a Bot or erowa, I guess the Doosan is pre plumbed for hyd work holding. Is the Siemens or Heid that awesome? I do like our 31i’s, but I’ve always been a fanuc guy, until we made that one Haas purchase 😂. It serves a purpose.  Thanks for all the feedback thus far guys, hope you are all doing well.

If you're looking for stupid speed and accuracy, don't forget about the P, S, X and HPM line of Mikrons. I've seen some absurd accuracy on some of these. They span from palm-of-your hand size parts to 1.9 meter X axis stroke.

https://www.gfms.com/content/dam/gfac/proddb/milling/high_speed_machine/en/mikron-mill-s-u-series_en.pdf

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On 4/19/2020 at 10:41 AM, dstryr said:

Find a machine tool company you trust for good support / service and just add aftermarket automation. In my case I went with Grob ( I have 3 of their machines now... Gen 0 G350 120 tools, Gen 1 G350 200 tools, Gen 2 G550 330 tools) all being fed by Erowa robots of different sizes and capabilities. 

 

Wow. up to three now. congrats. Did you end up making a decision on a medical mill?

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8 hours ago, mkd said:

throwing this one into the ring:

DMG Mori can't touch the price when combined with a 7 pallet pool with highly accurate 3R pallet interface or match the Heidenhain control, IMNSHO. Every modern Mikron comes with Heidy glass scales.

 

it'll take a cut too.

"ally" for newbeee. hahaha

MKD thanks for sharing, that was a cut at your shop? Iscar HM90FAL 3fl ? Mind sharing the cut data, looked pretty impressive. Also, what distance was that cut at from tilt pt.?  Thank you

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One of our biggest concern besides accuracy is table size and clearances, we use it all...all day, everyday from 0 to +120. This part isn’t as extreme, but gives an idea of what we’re doing and part size. A Haas with a Komo 5th, yeah you saw it here 1st lol. Thats how you make a haas significantly better. Had I known the newer control was as terrible as it is, never would have done it.  A shame a company that started with indexers has such terrible ones.

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2 hours ago, Eric@HorsepowerInc. said:

MKD thanks for sharing, that was a cut at your shop? Iscar HM90FAL 3fl ? Mind sharing the cut data, looked pretty impressive. Also, what distance was that cut at from tilt pt.?  Thank you

That was getting close to the max distance from the pivot. IIRC the block is 11 x  6 x 6.

 Yes that is the approximate cutter part number. 2" dia. That was 15,000@500. Barely any spindle load. Mill has 48hp.

 I've interpolated holes every 90 degrees about C (B90) on another batch of parts running randomly throughout a few days. Height gage measurements of the hole from a rectangle cut at B0 didn't vary more than .0005".  Warm-ups and calibration would be even better.

This is a great entry into real 5 axis mills. And yes I'm biased.

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2 hours ago, Eric@HorsepowerInc. said:

it.  A shame a company that started with indexers has such terrible ones. 

Yeah a neighbor shop bought one of there nice looking table top deals. ( The cantalevered one) .

 He's pretty pissed at the install. It doesn't home correctly, can barely cut aluminum and is inaccurate.

 Oh and slow too.

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13 hours ago, Eric@HorsepowerInc. said:

Cooled table bearings...now we’re talking. Any idea on accuracy specs for the machine, nothing listed on DMG’s site. We have been looking at a Makino DA300, and a Doosan DNM3505ax with glass scales. Makino has there own cell, the Doosan would use a Bot or erowa, I guess the Doosan is pre plumbed for hyd work holding. Is the Siemens or Heid that awesome? I do like our 31i’s, but I’ve always been a fanuc guy, until we made that one Haas purchase 😂. It serves a purpose.  Thanks for all the feedback thus far guys, hope you are all doing well.

Mechanically as tight and accurate as any in the market. Glass scales and all the good stuff.

MUCH more improved over gen 2.

With Siemens and Heidenain we recommend 6 decimal points code and let the control do the rest 😁

 those DMU's are NOT entry machines.

And they will take a CUT!

. Look up Titan Gilroy videos of his DMU 50....

 

Hi James 👋😊

 

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On 4/21/2020 at 7:54 PM, mkd said:

Wow. up to three now. congrats. Did you end up making a decision on a medical mill?

I went cheap... Brother 27k RPM with a Yukiwa 5axis table. Getting installed tomorrow. 
I've been hammering on Grob USA to build a G150 but Zee Germans dont zee listen

Something to compete with Mikron HSM400u size parts... 40k rpm hsk40 etc. I've kind of backed myself into a corner only wanting Siemens controls on higher end machines...

 

 

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6 hours ago, dstryr said:

Something to compete with Mikron HSM400u size parts... 40k rpm hsk40 etc. I've kind of backed myself into a corner only wanting Siemens controls on higher end machines...

Brothers are kinda expensive for what they are, IMHO. Congrats on continued epic success.

CAMplete don't care. Hit the post button, and the program appears in the HH controller. I sh!t you not.

 drilling some .008" holes on the Cadillac  Mill X 400u (linear motors and DD) . Spindle just looks to be vibrating. Night and day difference to competitor machines.

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On 4/27/2020 at 12:43 PM, dstryr said:

... I've kind of backed myself into a corner only wanting Siemens controls on higher end machines...

Indeed you have. You're missing out on a LOT of great equipment. Siemens makes a good control, don't get me wrong, they're just not good enough to warrant eliminating every other control on the market IMHO. 

:coffee:

 

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