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5ax with pallets


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On 4/27/2020 at 3:43 PM, dstryr said:

I went cheap... Brother 27k RPM with a Yukiwa 5axis table. Getting installed tomorrow. 
I've been hammering on Grob USA to build a G150 but Zee Germans dont zee listen

Something to compete with Mikron HSM400u size parts... 40k rpm hsk40 etc. I've kind of backed myself into a corner only wanting Siemens controls on higher end machines...

Good call on controller. On a higher end machine having fanuc, is like installing win95 on a latest gen computer.

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8 hours ago, byte said:

I knew u would say something lol

FANUC really does itself a disservice honestly. When I took a class in Chicago last year at their US HQ, I told 'em as much. They don't do a good job of educating those that support it's product, they don't do a good job of educating end users. THe only thing they do a good job of is making the most robust motion control product on the market. That must be enough for them I guess. 

So, it's up to folks like me that have a pretty good handle on them (and believe me I still feel like I'm only scratching the surface on what's possible with them) to pass along what we know so we can stop the disinformation fest the Heidenhein and Siemens fans continue to perpetrate. 

JM2CFWIW YMMV

:coffee: 

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6 hours ago, cncappsjames said:

THe only thing they do a good job of is making the most robust motion control product on the market. That must be enough for them I guess. 

i'd presume everyone agrees that it's common knowledge that a FUNUC control is pretty much guaranteed to outlive the machine tool, itself. Both in terms of durability, stability and legacy support.

 MACRO B is pretty unrivaled by the Bavarians.

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Our local TC has been doing a very simple and not very scientific test on any control and machine combination we canput our hands on, usually in our own showroom.

10 inch diameter circle divided into .001" point to point moves and programmed at a very high feedrates.

The results are fascinating.

 

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@Mark@dmg-mori .001" long length line segments or .001" chordal deviation segments on the 10" diameter? 

 

Speaking of tests, I ran a head to head test 840DI vs. a 30i-B on an impeller. Fastest I could get the 840DI to go was 20% slower than the FANUC. I tried everything. COMPCAD... everything. The whole friggin kitchen including the sink. Same program. Same tooling. Same everything. FANUC beat it hands down. 

So there's that. I'll post up a link for the program for anyone that wants to run it. Just tell me the kinematic you need (A/B, A/C, or B/C). 

:coffee:

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On 5/3/2020 at 1:45 AM, cncappsjames said:

Speaking of tests, I ran a head to head test 840DI vs. a 30i-B on an impeller. Fastest I could get the 840DI to go was 20% slower than the FANUC. I tried everything. COMPCAD... everything. The whole friggin kitchen including the sink. Same program. Same tooling. Same everything. FANUC beat it hands down. 

 

Comparing a 15+ year old Siemens/Yasnac red headed step child to a modern Fanuc isn't exactly fair.

Our older V-Max 5ax with the 840Di ran circles around our first generation MAM72-63V with the 30i

That being said, if never saw an 840Di control on a matsuura again I would be way happy. Unsupported by either Siemens or Yasnac. All tech support is done via tribal knowledge, Pray you don't have a drive go bad...it could be MONTHS to get a replacement,

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All those controls serve a purpose and I'm not going to knock one over the other...at least not too much ;)

The biggest differentiation by far is always the guy programming them.

 

Most of the time they won't even matter, but in those special circumstances...it could be a difference between making a profit or not for the shop owner.

There is also no excuse for a modern control  to puke when reading large program and going thru thousands of lines of code at high rate of speed...not good.

Changed my profile name, so I can say more 😁

 

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9 hours ago, Mark@ said:

The biggest differentiation by far is always the guy programming them.

Yup 100%

I have only once so far ran into a case where another modern control couldn't keep up with a 10+ year old Fanuc.  It could go at the same speeds, but the part barely looked like what was programmed.  No amount of reasonable programming or tuning was going to get a good part off in the same time.  Some would say that some tuning was needed, but the dealer threw up their hands and had no answers to solve the problem with their machine, upon asking the MTB, they also didn't have any suggestions.

To date thousands of parts have been made using a Fanuc control on a few different types of machines from a few different MTB's and not one machine has needed any tuning or special settings to make these parts.  Just works....

FYI it's a high speed 4 axis rotary surfacing application.  Shooting for somewhere around 20000mm/min peripheral speed.

Oh and you don't even need to use inverse time, all you need is AICC I, once again just works...

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I jinxed myself replying to this. One of our 840Di's went down yesterday. Fvcking POS takes 15 minutes to power down and power up...which you gotta do several times to diagnose. 6 hours later finally figured out the MCI card sh!t the bed.  Matsurra really dropped the ball with these. They really don't support them and defiantly don't stock any parts.

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2 hours ago, MIL-TFP-41 said:

I jinxed myself replying to this. One of our 840Di's went down yesterday. Fvcking POS takes 15 minutes to power down and power up...which you gotta do several times to diagnose. 6 hours later finally figured out the MCI card sh!t the bed.  Matsurra really dropped the ball with these. They really don't support them and defiantly don't stock any parts.

I've tried to get support from Siemens as a builder/distributor... I'd have better luck buying a winning lottery ticket honestly. There's like 1 or 2 guys in the US that have the kind of handle on it that I need. Trying to get hold of those guys... probably have an easier time locating Jimmy Hoffa honestly. :coffee:

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2 hours ago, MIL-TFP-41 said:

I jinxed myself replying to this. One of our 840Di's went down yesterday. Fvcking POS takes 15 minutes to power down and power up...which you gotta do several times to diagnose. 6 hours later finally figured out the MCI card sh!t the bed.  Matsurra really dropped the ball with these. They really don't support them and defiantly don't stock any parts.

We got a guy I think he's from Pennsylvania. He showed us how to back up the data there was a long drawn-out process but at least your zeroes are preserved

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  • 2 months later...

I work with both Heidenhain and Siemens controls on Mikron equipment. (5 axis)

I find the Heidenhain much easier to use.  

In day today use and performance I much prefer the Heidenhain control .

However when it comes to parametric programing the Siemens control will win hands down .

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/21/2020 at 10:16 PM, Eric@HorsepowerInc. said:

Cooled table bearings...now we’re talking. Any idea on accuracy specs for the machine, nothing listed on DMG’s site. We have been looking at a Makino DA300, and a Doosan DNM3505ax with glass scales. Makino has there own cell, the Doosan would use a Bot or erowa, I guess the Doosan is pre plumbed for hyd work holding. Is the Siemens or Heid that awesome? I do like our 31i’s, but I’ve always been a fanuc guy, until we made that one Haas purchase 😂. It serves a purpose.  Thanks for all the feedback thus far guys, hope you are all doing well.

I work for Doosan. The DNM350 is a nice machine but won't be around much longer. You might want to look at the DVF5000 with a work changer. 4 pallets up to 24 pallets in multiple configurations. It uses Schunk Zero Point hardware for the pallet to table interface. The DVF6500 and DVF8000 both have turning capabilities too.

 

Paul

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On 5/5/2020 at 8:20 PM, MIL-TFP-41 said:

I jinxed myself replying to this. One of our 840Di's went down yesterday. Fvcking POS takes 15 minutes to power down and power up...which you gotta do several times to diagnose. 6 hours later finally figured out the MCI card sh!t the bed.  Matsurra really dropped the ball with these. They really don't support them and defiantly don't stock any parts.

Personally, an older machine with a Siemens is nearly worthless.

But the iron is obviously still great.

Oh for a cost-effective retrofit solution...

 

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On 5/2/2020 at 6:04 AM, cncappsjames said:

FANUC really does itself a disservice honestly. When I took a class in Chicago last year at their US HQ, I told 'em as much. They don't do a good job of educating those that support it's product, they don't do a good job of educating end users. THe only thing they do a good job of is making the most robust motion control product on the market. That must be enough for them I guess. 

So, it's up to folks like me that have a pretty good handle on them (and believe me I still feel like I'm only scratching the surface on what's possible with them) to pass along what we know so we can stop the disinformation fest the Heidenhein and Siemens fans continue to perpetrate. 

JM2CFWIW YMMV

:coffee: 

This, a million times. You don't very often run into people with a good handle on the Fanuc situation. It's the most robust control on the market and bullet proof.

 

Paul

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