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Need help measuring and inspecting part with Renishaw


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So the boss bought a new VC-500A 5x machine with Renishaw inspection+. Right now we are running a part that has a bore that has a .002 true position back to a datum created by 2 inline bores that are on a different side of the part. The boss wants me to write a program for the probe to measure the 1st bore then use that data to adjust the work offset of the other bore so hopefully the bores will be w/in tolerance , then to inspect both features again to get actual true position so we don't have to send every part thru the cmm.

I know the codes/macros to measure a face and a bore, but creating a datum/feature between 2 bores and  figuring out how to use those values to determine the new work offset location, and then inspecting the bores to get the true position is way beyond my ability right now.

Anybody here willing/able to help me with this? I've attached the print and  a parasolid of the part as it sits at it's programmed X,Y,Z zero.

Trying to get the boss to buy the Renishaw add-on for MC, but money is a little tight right now with the way things are going.

Appreciate any help!

Thanks.

 

junk1.pdf

JUNK.X_T

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I think you're gonna have to tell the boss to get out the checkbook...

The Renishaw macros only provide a small portion of what you'll need...and as I'm thinking about it, I'm not able to see a way to do the entire calculation through a macro...then never mind the accounting for the volumetric issues and well as arc tolerance issues.....it's a no-brainer when it's all on the same plane...but where the platter has to rotate and tilt..that's going to compound the error....  

I'm not saying it's not possible....but without some hard testing, I can't see an easy way to do this...

This might well be something that asking Renishaw to come up with a solution is the path of least resistance..

PS..and remember any truly valid inspection equipment really needs to be calibrated and hold a tolerance 3x's greater then what is being inspected...I can tell you from experience, your VC500A-5x ain't that tight  ;) I've got a VC300-5X downstairs that the Z axis likes to travel .002-.003" as it adjusts to running every day.....

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Hey John, how's it going?

Yeah, Will had the deer in the headlights look when I told him the price for the add-on and training. I've read a few places online that there is/was a disconnect between Productivity+ and Inspection +, do you know of this?

I've asked Renishaw, but haven't heard from them yet.

We haven't see that kind of movement yet, but we haven't done anything real fussy either. When Will and I went to their facility, they were bragging how a couple of shops they know of were using a 300 or 500 to inspect parts. Granted it never cuts chips, but I don't know how tight the tolerances are either.

Thanks John.

22 minutes ago, nickbe10 said:

Contact Renishaw. They will sort you out with all kinds of documentation and tutorials. They also have good phone support for individual problems

I've sent an email to them, but where we didn't buy directly from them I'm not sure how willing they are to work with me. I've never dealt with them before. Hopefully I'll hear something soon.

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Separate offsets with probe

 

I did a job for an ITAR customer, .0005 true POS. Holes inline 180 degrees apart in titanium.

I calibrated before boring each part. Probed the same point for x and y on each rotation. Fixture was make so clamps pushed the part into the solid edge.

It worked out good. All datums were skimed in shrink holders with the face of the tool.

 

I used my post who's spits out the standard pqi macros(renishaw)

 

 

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12 hours ago, Leon82 said:

Separate offsets with probe

 

I did a job for an ITAR customer, .0005 true POS. Holes inline 180 degrees apart in titanium.

I calibrated before boring each part. Probed the same point for x and y on each rotation. Fixture was make so clamps pushed the part into the solid edge.

It worked out good. All datums were skimed in shrink holders with the face of the tool.

 

I used my post who's spits out the standard pqi macros(renishaw)

 

 

So how did you calculate the true position?

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15 hours ago, BBprecise said:

Hey John, how's it going?

Yeah, Will had the deer in the headlights look when I told him the price for the add-on and training. I've read a few places online that there is/was a disconnect between Productivity+ and Inspection +, do you know of this?

I've asked Renishaw, but haven't heard from them yet.

We haven't see that kind of movement yet, but we haven't done anything real fussy either. When Will and I went to their facility, they were bragging how a couple of shops they know of were using a 300 or 500 to inspect parts. Granted it never cuts chips, but I don't know how tight the tolerances are either.

Thanks John.

Going good...yeah, where you're wanting to go is going to require some investment...be it time and/or money...I'm sadly not read too deeply in the Renishaw products...

We had them back in after the setup....something in the compensation of the Z as it warms up seems to me to just be off...it's off to the point that once a job is running, we cannot use the the tool probe to change a tool but the offset from the Zoller is used instead..otherwise it's off...

I just would have preferred a much better machine but as it goes here we can have any machine we want so long as it's a Mazak  :)

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5 minutes ago, JParis said:

Going good...yeah, where you're wanting to go is going to require some investment...be it time and/or money...I'm sadly not read too deeply in the Renishaw products...

We had them back in after the setup....something in the compensation of the Z as it warms up seems to me to just be off...it's off to the point that once a job is running, we cannot use the the tool probe to change a tool but the offset from the Zoller is used instead..otherwise it's off...

I just would have preferred a much better machine but as it goes here we can have any machine we want so long as it's a Mazak  :)

Not a fan of Mazaks? Compared to what we've had and currently have they are a much better machine. We purchased the VC-500, a VCN-570 and an HQR100 new last fall. We have a problem with the external TSC on the 500 (stopped working after 3 months (and getting a tech up here during this crap is like pulling hens teeth) and the rotary we bought with the VCN won't even work. Apparently they never hooked it up when they installed the machine and I can't figure out whats going on with it.

We haven't even done the training for the Mill/Turn in Mastercam yet. Time and money as with everything else. 👍

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Just now, BBprecise said:

Not a fan of Mazaks?

We've got nearly 50 of them here...while I program any and all of them as needed, my main focus is the 19 Palletech HMC spindles, the 5 axis and Integrex's

I've heard it said that Mazak is Japanese for Haas....I'm hard pressed to refute that...perhaps the only nice thing about being a Mazak facility is if we call, we get a service guy as soon as one is free...

I program them, they make parts....all in all I don't have the headache of running them...

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3 minutes ago, JParis said:

We've got nearly 50 of them here...while I program any and all of them as needed, my main focus is the 19 Palletech HMC spindles, the 5 axis and Integrex's

I've heard it said that Mazak is Japanese for Haas....I'm hard pressed to refute that...perhaps the only nice thing about being a Mazak facility is if we call, we get a service guy as soon as one is free...

I program them, they make parts....all in all I don't have the headache of running them...

🤣🤣🤣

I always though Mazaks were a top tier brand. We did look at Mori's DMU series, but I didn't like the way the trunion is set up with no support on the front.

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32 minutes ago, JParis said:

IMNSHO Mori is a shadow of what they used to be since they were bought..

 

I've heard the same. We had a couple of old Mori-Seiki's SL lathes from the 80's years ago and they were pretty good for the thrashing we gave them. The SL-5 was a beast compared to the new Johnford ST lathes we had at the same time with same spindle hp rating. We used to take a program from the Mori and run it on the Johnford and we'd stall the spindle every time we roughed a part. That Mori never broke a sweat.

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Just now, Leon82 said:

We inspected it on  the cmm. The renishaw macros do calculate the true position if want to use it to check the hole

They're trying to avoid only CMM inspection...and yes...BUT they don't calculate True position from a hole to a created centerline datum at a different angle  :)

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1 minute ago, cncappsjames said:

FANUC Control, Inspection Plus...

After a probing Cycle

#140 = X Error

#141 = Y Error

#!42 = Z Error

#143 = Size Error

#144 = Angle Error (most of the time)

#145 = True Postion Error

Mazak as well....take a look at his print James...you'll get a clearer picture  :)

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On 5/15/2020 at 2:46 PM, cncappsjames said:

Well... at least he's got some maximum material condition to work with.  :rofl:

@BBprecise, are you probing with G68.2 active? 

We haven't had any luck getting the G68.2 working yet, so no we're not. Not sure what we're missing.

Yeah, lots of bonus there.

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8 hours ago, BBprecise said:

We haven't had any luck getting the G68.2 working yet, so no we're not. Not sure what we're missing.

It's proven EXTREMELY valuable to us being able to probe with G68.2 active when needing to make error corrections. We could do it without but... it would probably add an order or two magnitude of complexity to the process I'm guessing. 

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51 minutes ago, Leon82 said:

I always love mmc on a .0002 tolerance bore. Or a thread

We had Colt firearm part that had a custom Acme thread that had a starting point tolerance of +/-.0015, and an Ø1-1/16 x 24 thread that had a starting point tol. of +/-.0008. In a titanium cast no less. We made 5 parts and told them we weren't gonna make any more. The pitch dia tol. of both threads alone were enough to take that point out of tolerance.

That sucked!

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1 hour ago, cncappsjames said:

It's proven EXTREMELY valuable to us being able to probe with G68.2 active when needing to make error corrections. We could do it without but... it would probably add an order or two magnitude of complexity to the process I'm guessing. 

We just can't figure out why G68.2 isn't working the way it should. The post spits everything out correctly the best I can tell, but machine isn't reacting like it should. Another battle for another day.

I can't imagine the math required to calculate hole location without using G68.2, Not worth it. I do have a trial license of Production + for MC, but that doesn't look to be as easy to use as I thought. Then again I don't have any training on it.

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10 minutes ago, BBprecise said:

We just can't figure out why G68.2 isn't working the way it should. The post spits everything out correctly the best I can tell, but machine isn't reacting like it should.

Send that code to Mazak and ask them why? If it's wrong, what's wrong with it..

Like I said in PM, our's was not properly setup right the first time and the G68.2 issue was exactly the issue we were fighting

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