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Tricking Mastercam with Safety Zone


crazy^millman
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Hello Mastercam programmers. I have a really difficult part I am programming and after trying many different methods I had to settle on the old School Curve 5 Axis Toolpath to machine the ID walls of this part. I am using a Big RAH head and I am 4 Axis machining the walls where I want to keep the tool normal to the floor where possible, but still get efficient machining accomplished. I had done other features that were not the same and was able to sue Safety Zone with a ID Cylinder of 44" in Diameter and the tool was retracting the indexing back to the start point with no issues. That is the Moduleworks toolpaths and works really good. In the old school toolpaths not getting the same behavior and it was reversing the Vector of the tool going from the shape to the cylinder then back to the start. Yes I have bug number registered for the different things I uncovered in this process. I was settled on just letting the machine Rapids where I could not get good Safety zone move and broke up sections where it was greater than 180 degrees. I am 50 operations into doing this and the rapid moves are driving me crazy. I start making small section blocks to use in the specific zones to get what I could for decent Safety zone moves. I am feeding the moves at 500 ipm and have been coping good toolpaths and then rechaining the toolpath and repicking the vectors to get the motion I want. I forgot to go pick the new shape for the Safety zone and it was refencing the old shape.  I then I got Feed moves instead or Rapid moves for the linking and I very happy with the results. The shape was close enough that Safety zone accepted it and didn't try going over to it, but if you swinging to big a shape it will not work. The shape you want to use needs to lay within the travel zone, but doesn't haven't to force your toolpath above that shape. I am using the Wrap method new for 2021 to cheat this, but it is working. I hate that I have to go back and change this for 50 operations, but I feel more comfortable giving the customer this type of motion than what I was getting with just a bunch of rapids. Machine doesn't have a Rapid override so anything I can give them in a feed move is safer and better. Sorry I cannot share the file and when time permits I will try to throw together a sample file. I just learned this method and wanted to share it with others encase you are using the old school 5 Axis toolpaths and want feed moves instead of rapids and Safety zone is not giving you the results you want there are hacks to make it work. 

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Sorry hard to follow what you are talking about, but maybe try the manual edit function by right clicking on the toolpath and selection manual edit. Yes its alot of work but if everything else is dialed you can change those rapids to feed moves. If its a problem with the linking between toolpaths maybe a points path can give u feed moves inbetween... Again not sure exactly what you are doing but alot of times when I am done and looking to clean up a few the manual edit feature puts the finishing touches on a program that can be posted as long as you dont have to regenerate... Good Luck!

 

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18 minutes ago, motor-vater said:

Sorry hard to follow what you are talking about, but maybe try the manual edit function by right clicking on the toolpath and selection manual edit. Yes its alot of work but if everything else is dialed you can change those rapids to feed moves. If its a problem with the linking between toolpaths maybe a points path can give u feed moves inbetween... Again not sure exactly what you are doing but alot of times when I am done and looking to clean up a few the manual edit feature puts the finishing touches on a program that can be posted as long as you dont have to regenerate... Good Luck!

 

I am talking about 100 operations and maybe 4000 rapid moves all converted to feed moves. Trust me if I thought manual edit would do it I would use it, but on some of the operations with 50k points sorting through 1000 points to make that happen will not be fun. I need to change a step over or anything down the road I have a good method now with no issue. Thanks for the suggestion and I have 10 operations in the file where I did have to do that and in each of the operations it was time well spent.  

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23 minutes ago, motor-vater said:

just planting seeds...

Thanks why I put topics up like this to do the same thing plant seeds.

17 minutes ago, motor-vater said:

Couldnt used Swarf? you can force feeds for rapids under the Utility drop down? or along curve, triangle mesh or anything newer. Curve is definitly a good tool but plenty of ways to skin a cat in mastercam

I tired swarf, but it would mean breaking up sections of the surface into smaller surfaces and then trying to keep the tool normal using the 4 axis was not working either. I have 2 weeks just trying to machine this one section and been on the project for 7 months. The light is near, but it is the last sections that are kicking me up and down the street. I could send a simple waterline and just index it around and call it a day, but that is not what I do. I am going to give my best and do everything in my power to make it right.

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4 minutes ago, motor-vater said:

Im working on a few projects like that right now so I feel your pain.... What happened to the good old days where engineers took into consideration the manufacturing process when designing things... No Respect I tell you!

 

I have done work directly and indirectly for this company for over 5 years the idea of Design for Manufacturability is just not in their vocabulary. Things are better than 5 years ago, but still not easy.

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Ron  sometimes in chatting with the Engineers about that exact process of designing for manufacturing,  maybe if you plant some seeds for them to pick up and run with like it was there idea in the first place you may just hit a good nerve  and over time you can remind them of how much better things work when they team up with the guys on the shop floor and work together to get the job done. Now sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but if you can tie money and cost to it and they can show a savings to there upper levels , it may just entice them to give it a try and if they get bonuses or incentives to improve the workflow and cost cutting  ya never know what will happen unless you try. But i understand your plight  some old dogs just don't like to learn new tricks  but if you work at it you may get some to bite.  Like talking in the third person about you heard some guy had an issue like what you may have and here is how he resolved it . Input Story telling here.  then you ad lib  it over time and they may just pick up on it and try it.

Ya Never Know  unless you try  like thinking out of the box???

:construction:

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37 minutes ago, CADCAM3D5AXIS said:

Ron  sometimes in chatting with the Engineers about that exact process of designing for manufacturing,  maybe if you plant some seeds for them to pick up and run with like it was there idea in the first place you may just hit a good nerve  and over time you can remind them of how much better things work when they team up with the guys on the shop floor and work together to get the job done. Now sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but if you can tie money and cost to it and they can show a savings to there upper levels , it may just entice them to give it a try and if they get bonuses or incentives to improve the workflow and cost cutting  ya never know what will happen unless you try. But i understand your plight  some old dogs just don't like to learn new tricks  but if you work at it you may get some to bite.  Like talking in the third person about you heard some guy had an issue like what you may have and here is how he resolved it . Input Story telling here.  then you ad lib  it over time and they may just pick up on it and try it.

Ya Never Know  unless you try  like thinking out of the box???

:construction:

Well I am very removed from the engineering group anymore. I was in daily meetings when I worked directly for the customer, but now I am doing 3rd and 4th tier work for the customer. I am always throwing out suggestions and ideas when I have the chance, but begin this far removed directly from them just no way and can only pass it up to see what comes of it. The part has been approved for Space Flight so it cannot really be changed at this point without delaying the next launch 18-24 months. The model has to be locked down or NASA will not allow the Rocket to fly into Space for Human Flight.

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17 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

Well I am very removed from the engineering group anymore. I was in daily meetings when I worked directly for the customer, but now I am doing 3rd and 4th tier work for the customer. I am always throwing out suggestions and ideas when I have the chance, but begin this far removed directly from them just no way and can only pass it up to see what comes of it. The part has been approved for Space Flight so it cannot really be changed at this point without delaying the next launch 18-24 months. The model has to be locked down or NASA will not allow the Rocket to fly into Space for Human Flight.

Yup That's a bummer but maybe they can look at it as a future cost savings  if it gets submitted  from or to NASA,   they can slip it in up stream  maybe as a process improvement and cost savings. But sometimes they just don't care  since it's made it as far as it did with no one improving along the way to update it to make it more manufacture friendly but since it has a launch date there will be no changes at this point. But they could up rev it in the future.. Cross your fingers   if they get any ideas,  Maybe through A Source Inspector

NASA DCMA   Or ???

well Keep up the Good Work Ron  since Stuff has to fly and maybe come back also .

:thumbsup:

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A good engineer can design a functional part, A great engineer can make a highly functional part for cheaper! Simple things like radii that match available tool geometry and making surfaces flat and perpendicular where possible and not over constraining a parts tolerance all add up to money saved when it comes to manufacturing..... I hear in Europe they make engineers spend a few years on the floor before cutting them loose on the CAD system.... Quite possible the best idea ever!!!

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