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Hasp update going away? Post support off maintenance?


AGreen5
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I was told Thales bought Gemalto and Hasps are no longer supported.  One odd part of that was that there wasn't an official timeline was other verbage from CNC software.  I see Thales advertising the Sentinel Hasps, and that is inconsistent.  The reseller had said they wanted to get into our server- a condition we really aren't at all comfortable with, as we are an ITARS company and we don't have any third party employees in our server as a policy.  We also have wireless networking and bandwidth latency issues and drop outs.  No IT professionals in the company to handle server related issues, although we are looking for competent IT people who are willing to multi-task.  We're kind of stuck in this stupid place where we have a reliable enough CAM solution and we would like to be able to continue on maintenance, but we want to keep the dongle- it was how we bought the product and it seemed integral to this non cloud ownership of software sales pitch.  It's working reliably and its what we're used to.  

Are there third party post providers who can sell posts to people off of maintenance?     It's a patch, a partial patch.   We may have to migrate to some other CAM software for future work. I thought about paying maintenance for support on 2020, but realized that isn't really a good deal either.   

I feel like some of the guys are going to have to run on hasps in the field, and I don't know why customers are getting shoved around.   If it's cost reduction, I'd rather pay for the hasp update and not be put in a corner where we don't have good options and have to think about things with some weight.  We want to work here, not work in trying to figure out what to do because software vendors can't be consistent.   

 

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 I just renewed maintenance on my USB hasp and never heard a word about hasps going away

My employeer runs a nethasp with no issues, 3rd party vendors do not get or need access to our servers 

Sentinel hasps will go away eventually as the drivers are not being updated any longer.

They will be replaced by Codemeter, but as long as you have a competent IT department there is no need for

3rd parties to be rummaging around in your servers. Codemeter is totally ITAR compliant if properly installed and managed.

 

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A CNC software representative gave me diss-information.  He told me the new ownership refused to do business with Mastercam.    I found an admin document talking about support of hasps at Gemalto.com, that page came up as redirected to Thales, where I saw them marketing Sentinel Hasps, and contacted Thales for a response. 

THALES.thumb.JPG.29364163d68a5aa8fcb4dc22d620ff23.JPG

 

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That worst part of this whole fiasco was that it felt like a government audit and it was filled with stress.  The wibu exchange cost me $3500 of my time over two days.  You start thinking about Powermill, and Siemens NX at that point.  Luckily my current programmer has experience in both.  

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2 hours ago, AGreen5 said:

A CNC software representative gave me diss-information.  He told me the new ownership refused to do business with Mastercam.    I found an admin document talking about support of hasps at Gemalto.com, that page came up as redirected to Thales, where I saw them marketing Sentinel Hasps, and contacted Thales for a response. 

THALES.thumb.JPG.29364163d68a5aa8fcb4dc22d620ff23.JPG

 

I think you need to take this directly to sales _at_mastercam.com

I have no idea whats going on but it sounds like Tolland needs to get involved.

I should be taking this thread down but I'm leaving it up in case this is happening to others

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13 hours ago, AGreen5 said:

That worst part of this whole fiasco was that it felt like a government audit and it was filled with stress.  The wibu exchange cost me $3500 of my time over two days.  You start thinking about Powermill, and Siemens NX at that point.  Luckily my current programmer has experience in both.  

Then spend $50k-$200k when it is all said and done and look back and go what was I thinking?

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On 8/5/2020 at 8:26 AM, crazy^millman said:

Then spend $50k-$200k when it is all said and done and look back and go what was I thinking?

Don't get me wrong I didn't want any of this interaction or lost time and focus.  I just wanted normal maintenance. I didn't ask to turn in my sim.  Loss of the hasp, would be transformative.  The software can't come home for weekend work or home with an employee for training- or gap support if he quits a job in good standing- with simple transportation of the hasp, the reliability can't be solid like a hasp when it depends on the internet and the server.  The tangibility fades and the concept of owning something real slips away. 

I feel for CNC software in that they may have to adapt but I don't agree the adaptation has to impact all previous customers.  I don't care if they even want to sell full featured seats (more features than I have) on a subscription where the customer never gets ownership and only pays maintenance.  I wouldn't say, "that isn't fair".  In fact I think it would be a solid move to counter Fusion.  If they gave students seats for free like it was 1999 I wouldn't disagree that that will produce programmers (a benefit to company customers).  That's how Mastercam got the market dominance it had.  Fusion really used the Mastercam playbook.   Adapting pre-existing customer product is where I disagree and feel harassment/harm.

I was told there is a strategic intent to move all users to WIBU and have them all experience loss of ownership, freedom, and features like I mention above.  I think what doesn't work is that CNC software strategies are harmful to customers, singularly beneficial to CNC software.  That doesn't counter any market threat, because it doesn't make Mastercam more market attractive.  

I want CNC software to do well.  I think listening to customers feedback and developing some mutually beneficial strategies, or at least strategies that don't harm customers, would be a great idea.   

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Well you have heard something I have not heard and have my seat of Mastercam with a Sim. They might go in a 100 different directions as a company. Never know Warren Buffet could offer them a Billion dollars and they sell it to him. Hopefully you get it cleared up to your liking and can do what you need to stay profitable as a business. 

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The software can't come home for weekend work or home with an employee for training- or gap support if he quits a job in good standing- with simple transportation of the hasp, the reliability can't be solid like a hasp when it depends on the internet and the server.  The tangibility fades and the concept of owning something real slips away. 

It sounds like you got a network software license.  They just introduced the option to borrow a license from the network software license.  Essentially you check the license out on a PC or laptop then you can pick that computer up and take it home with you.  You can check the license out for up to 10 days at a time currently.  Once you are done with it you check it back in.  If you did get a single or local software license you can deactivate it and activate it at home this step is a bit more work and confusing the first couple of times you do it but you can do it.  

Quote

the reliability can't be solid like a hasp when it depends on the internet and the server

Once you check out or borrow the license you are no longer required to be plugged into the server.  So this would be just as reliable as a HASP.   

I understand having a physical hasp makes it easy to share or take home but once you use the license borrowing tool its almost easier because you don't have to worry about forgetting the Hasp at home.  You would just have to worry about forgetting the computer or laptop at home but thats not likely.  

Quote

If they gave students seats for free like it was 1999 I wouldn't disagree that that will produce programmers (a benefit to company customers).  That's how Mastercam got the market dominance it had.

They do this still its called the Mastercam HLE (Home Learning Edition).  Its free on Mastercam.com  When saving a file it will save it as EMCAM file which industrial seats will not be able to open this is to prevent posting.  

You have some good points in your discussion and you caught the attention of Pete Rimkus from CNC Software as he posted in here.  As Gcode said I would reach out to sales _at_mastercam.com and see if something can be done.  its worth a try in the very least.  Good Luck

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I really strongly appreciate your advice to reach out to [email protected].  I had e-mailed them and was not getting a response, and I just called them and it appears they are going to be able to help me out.  Mike over there said there was a resolution he could provide.  I'm pretty grateful for that, this was looking very bleak before that.

I want to say that I do feel Mastercam is a strong product at this point.  It took me 4 years to get the level of understanding to be able to begin to feel that way, and even now I program very little as we've staffed the job for one and a half years.  I really hope the best for education on the product and the future of the product.  It was great to see some video education happen to the broad marketplace of CNC career people this year allowing hardworking people to get a chance to move their own destiny with their effort and I hope that initiatives continue to create a new generation of programmers.      

 

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My e-mail to CNC software bounced (Delivery failure message) from two different accounts.  They made a specific request for an e-mail and I'm going to have to hope to figure out how to get it to the intended recipient on Monday.  I found the recipient on Facebook and sent the attachment requested there, but I would have preferred to have been able to send to the e-mail address requested for delivery.   I hope that works.  That CNC Software representative was very professional and super courteous to work with, and confirmed that there was no definitive timeline, so my request for hasp maintenance was something they can accommodate.   I greatly appreciated the cooperation extended.  It was highly functional to have that kind of help. 

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Try emailing me at [email protected] (let me know in the email who you talked to and what email addresses they gave you) and I'll see if I can get you connected to them. Connecticut got hit pretty hard last week by Isaias, and power in the office and in remote employees homes was out for a couple days (and is STILL out in some places) which might have impacted our response.

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I tried to help a guy over the weekend.

He was running V8 and had to replace his old XP machine with a new refurb XP machine

His new machine could not see his hasp.

I suggested he go to Aladdin's web site and download the proper drivers.

After suggesting that I tried it myself... it's not happening.

Aladdin is dead and gone.  Looking for HASP drivers takes you to Thale's website now

and I did not have a clue what to download.

It's pretty clear the days of HASPs are numbered.. and  not because Mastercam has an evil scheme for world domination.

HASPs are simply last century technology and are no longer being supported.

While I don't have an objection to software licensing in principle, the lack of portability is a major issue for me

and many other users.

I really hope a solution for portability can be found. The ability to check out licenses is not enough.

A good solution would be the ability to save licenses to a USB stick and transfer them from computer to computer.

Another might be the ability to save your license to the cloud and run it on any machine that had a broad band connection

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, gcode said:

Another might be the ability to save your license to the cloud and run it on any machine that had a broad band connection

This would be an ideal solution for these CV-19 quarantine times.

These days my hasp lives on my car key ring, because I  never know where I'm going to be and when I'll need to use Mastercam

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the license borrowing that is now offered through network software licenses is pretty impressive, never before could we borrow a few licenses off a nethasp, now you can. So in some ways portability is more impressive now than it has ever been, lets say we have 2 mill licenses and a lathe license on a network license and a mill user is working from home for a week, now with the modern network software licenses we can borrow or check out a mill license for him for a week and there is no need to VPN into the server, he can work from home with the borrowed license just like if he were to have the license on his psychical pc.

so i would argue our licenses today are better than they have ever been, but thats my opinion

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10 minutes ago, JoshC said:

, lets say we have 2 mill licenses and a lathe license on a network license and a mill user is working from home for a week, now with the modern network software licenses we can borrow or check out a mill license for him for a week and there is no need to VPN into the server,

how does he obtain the license?

via the cloud?? a physical transfer from PC to PC ???

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Just now, gcode said:

how does he obtain the license?

via the cloud?? a physical transfer from PC to PC ???

you borrow or obtain the license from a network connection, so you still must be connected to the network license to borrow the license, but once you borrow it you can disconnect from the network. you could borrow it through a VPN but i think how its expected to be used is the person would come into the shop where they would have access to the network, you use the license borrowing utility which is an application your reseller can provide, then with the license borrowing utility you choose which licenses you wish to borrow and for how long, it then borrows the license from the pool of network licenses and then you can disconnect from your network or do whatever you need in mastercam and the license is basically installed on your pc for that duration of time so there is then no need to be connected to the network anymore and could even work from home without any vpn's or without any access to the network at all. then whats pretty neat is after the time you have chosen to borrow the license expires the license automatically returns to the pool of licenses on the server so you dont even need to return the license. 

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This could work great for my employer, but for myself, I need something I can stick in my pocket and take with me

Perhaps checking the license out to a USB stick, driving to a customer, then loaning their PC my license so I could

work???

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5 hours ago, Pete Rimkus from CNC Software Inc. said:

Try emailing me at [email protected] (let me know in the email who you talked to and what email addresses they gave you) and I'll see if I can get you connected to them. Connecticut got hit pretty hard last week by Isaias, and power in the office and in remote employees homes was out for a couple days (and is STILL out in some places) which might have impacted our response.

Thanks Pete for the offer- I appreciate it.  I called in this morning and realized somehow the communication of the dot between first and last was not received.  I've resent the message and the POC should have it now.  

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