Backplot save as geometry

[AMCNitro]

Why is it that I cant make Save as Geometry work?  It never saves.

[Guest]

Just now, AMCNitro said:

Why is it that I cant make Save as Geometry work?  It never saves.

Been wondering that myself, I never made it work, although I have seen Tom and Ron say they use it before.

[Chris In-House Solutions]

I've used it.  Usually the new geometry gets saved to a level that you can specify.  I think level 255 is the default level.    

[gcode]

I use it almost daily and it works just fine

you probably have your Levels set to Range 0 to 100 in the Levels Manager

By default backplot saves to level 255 and you can't see it because your level range tops out at Level 100

[AMCNitro]

4 minutes ago, byte said:

Been wondering that myself, I never made it work, although I have seen Tom and Ron say they use it before.

I thought I was the only one... And, I have also seen others mention they use it.

3 minutes ago, Chris In-House Solutions said:

I've used it.  Usually the new geometry gets saved to a level that you can specify.  I think level 255 is the default level.    

Yes, that what it was set at, but I changed the level and its not saving it.

1 minute ago, gcode said:

you probably have your Levels set to Range 0 to 100

B\y default backplot saves to level 255 and you can't see it because your level range tops out at Level 100

That's probably true, but even changing it to level 4 it doesn't work

[gcode]

BTW, it only saves what's on the screen

If you launch Backplot and hit save you'll get nothing because nothing is on the screen

If you launch Backplot and hit S 6 times then hit Save, you'll get those 6 steps on the screen

 

[AMCNitro]

4 minutes ago, gcode said:

BTW, it only saves what's on the screen

If you launch Backplot and hit save you'll get nothing because nothing is on the screen

If you launch Backplot and hit S 6 times then hit Save, you'll get those 6 steps on the screen

 

That's how it works!!  I thought it was something that you turned on...  Got it to work.   Thanks!! 

[gcode]

Pro Tip … if you use the Advanced Colors options for backplot, you can use color masking

to delete a lot of stuff you don't want .. like rapid motion, leadin/lead out etc etc

This is really helpful if you are saving a bunch of surfacing motion

[crazy^millman]

11 minutes ago, AMCNitro said:

That's how it works!!  I thought it was something that you turned on...  Got it to work.   Thanks!! 

I will use the limit of the toolpath to backplot the end of one toolpath and the start of another. I make sure the vectors are turned on and now I have everything I need to make a linking move for a Curve 5 Axis Toolpath. Gcode taught me that trick many years ago when we worked together.

[BILL HUNTER]

On 8/10/2020 at 4:09 PM, AMCNitro said:

Why is it that I cant make Save as Geometry work?  It never saves.

I never understood why this would be useful. Explain to me why you would use this please?

[#Rekd™]

Bill read G-Code's post above to get rid of unwanted moves.

 

[crazy^millman]

10 minutes ago, BILL HUNTER said:

I never understood why this would be useful. Explain to me why you would use this please?

Imagine you have a idea in your head and you would like a method to make it happen. You have all the diagrams and everything, but just not real good way to make it happen. Saving geometry out of the back plottled toolpath is that. It allows your take abstract concepts and ides and bring them all together in a way you wanted. Are you willing to think outside of the box and use a very powerful tool or just see what might come your way that will do it?

I have some very tight areas on a current part where I need to move from one internal Pocket roughly 30" x 22" x 6" deep to another pocket down inside of a part with a Right angle head. I could be lazy and send the head up 45" out of the inside of the part do what it need to position itself and then move to the next position and back down 45". Or I can save the last move with the Vector and the 1st move of the next toolpath with a vector and then draw my own custom move to move it from one place to another. I have been drawing 44" cylinders inside of my current part and projecting the linking rapid move between them and then adding Vectors along that to control the RAH and then the 5 axis Head inside of the part. May only be saving a few hours on a part that runs for over a 1000 hours, but to me it separates the lazy programmers from those that care to do their best. 

[BILL HUNTER]

Just now, crazy^millman said:

Imagine you have a idea in your head and you would like a method to make it happen. You have all the diagrams and everything, but just not real good way to make it happen. Saving geometry out of the back plottled toolpath is that. It allows your take abstract concepts and ides and bring them all together in a way you wanted. Are you willing to think outside of the box and use a very powerful tool or just see what might come your way that will do it?

I have some very tight areas on a current part where I need to move from one internal Pocket roughly 30" x 22" x 6" deep to another pocket down inside of a part with a Right angle head. I could be lazy and send the head up 45" out of the inside of the part do what it need to position itself and then move to the next position and back down 45". Or I can save the last move with the Vector and the 1st move of the next toolpath with a vector and then draw my own custom move to move it from one place to another. I have been drawing 44" cylinders inside of my current part and projecting the linking rapid move between them and then adding Vectors along that to control the RAH and then the 5 axis Head inside of the part. May only be saving a few hours on a part that runs for over a 1000 hours, but to me it separates the lazy programmers from those that care to do their best. 

I'm sorry. I did not mean to include you in my request. I don't even bother reading your replies anymore. Enjoy your day.

[htm01]

26 minutes ago, BILL HUNTER said:

I never understood why this would be useful. Explain to me why you would use this please?

use to use it all the time when we would get digitized path and had to make changes but had no way to model

reverse post and save backplot

[crazy^millman]

6 minutes ago, BILL HUNTER said:

I'm sorry. I did not mean to include you in my request. I don't even bother reading your replies anymore. Enjoy your day.

Thank you and all the best to you as well. Have a great and wonderful day.

[gcode]

2 hours ago, BILL HUNTER said:

I never understood why this would be useful. Explain to me why you would use this please?

you have a 5axis floor to finish

5 axis morph does a decent job but there is some air and some unnecessary motion

this is a production part and it's worth extra programming time to save machine time

you back plot the toolpath,

 save the C/L geometry

 project it flat,

edit it so that it does exactly what you want

project it back down to your surface

and cut it with a 5axis project toolpath.

Now you have a clean efficient toolpath with no retracts air cuts or overcuts  

 

 

[JParis]

34 minutes ago, gcode said:

you have a 5axis floor to finish

5 axis morph does a decent job but there is some air and some unnecessary motion

this is a production part and it's worth extra programming time to save machine time

you back plot the toolpath,

 save the C/L geometry

 project it flat,

edit it so that it does exactly what you want

project it back down to your surface

and cut it with a 5axis project toolpath.

Now you have a clean efficient toolpath with no retracts air cuts or overcuts  

 

 

Do this ALL the time to get good clean path on otherwise ugly surfaces

[crazy^millman]

35 minutes ago, JParis said:

Do this ALL the time to get good clean path on otherwise ugly surfaces

When you only settle on what you get then you get exactly that. When you look outside of what you get to see inside what you want then you are able to really make Mastercam move a machine like no one has ever seen. I was in a Major Aerospace Shop making a part that ran for well over 800 hours. They had never seen the 5 Axis machine move like it was moving and they were bring engineers over all the time to show them the way it was running. I was asked how I was able to accomplish that in their $250k software that 20 previous programmers hadn't. I laughed and said not using that I am using Mastercam. I got a reply back from the head of purchasing he was puzzled. We disqualified a lot of Vendors that did 5 Axis work for us that used Mastercam because our internal programmers had always told us Mastercam couldn't program 5 Axis machines. From that point forward all vendors that had not been allowed to do work for them were being considered that had Mastercam. 

[#Rekd™]

1 hour ago, gcode said:

you have a 5axis floor to finish

5 axis morph does a decent job but there is some air and some unnecessary motion

this is a production part and it's worth extra programming time to save machine time

you back plot the toolpath,

 save the C/L geometry

 project it flat,

edit it so that it does exactly what you want

project it back down to your surface

and cut it with a 5axis project toolpath.

Now you have a clean efficient toolpath with no retracts air cuts or overcuts  

Tom this is a great tip, thanks for sharing!

[BILL HUNTER]

22 hours ago, gcode said:

you have a 5axis floor to finish

5 axis morph does a decent job but there is some air and some unnecessary motion

this is a production part and it's worth extra programming time to save machine time

you back plot the toolpath,

 save the C/L geometry

 project it flat,

edit it so that it does exactly what you want

project it back down to your surface

and cut it with a 5axis project toolpath.

Now you have a clean efficient toolpath with no retracts air cuts or overcuts  

 

 

 

Yes, I use the morph, when it works. Same as project. I am glad you pointed this out because it was another issue we had. After a certain point in Mastercam files, stuff just stops working for no reason. I could not get it to do many 5 axis ops. It seems to me that 2020 has a problem with file corruption. I never saw this in 2019. Things that you know it should do, that you have done many times before, just go haywire. Sometimes restarting Mastercam seems to help. Other times, the only cure is to start all over from scratch. When you are 70 ops into a part and have to start over the mood is reflected on this forum. So, when we are struggling with a software that has had 25+ years to perfect itself the last thing we need is Crazy miller hurling childish insults like a 3 year old. I suspect he is here only to make him feel good about himself for not getting very far in life. I think he lives here and needs a constant pat on the back to make it through the day. For us, machining is a job, not an adventure. Anybody in any country can do it and it is no longer considered a skilled trade like an electrician or plumber. The pay is low, the benefits suk, and the BS is high.

We do not have an actual NC backplotter. On our next software package that will be a must. We really need a backplotter. We have a machine that is not typical in nature. The trunion itself weighs at least 40,000 pounds. We originally hired a 3rd party to do the initial programming. It was a flop, to say the least. That part was just 3+2. Now we kicked those people to the curb and are taking on 5axis simultaneous. 

[#Rekd™]

9 minutes ago, BILL HUNTER said:

I suspect he is here only to make him feel good about himself for not getting very far in life.

I don't think that is accurate at all. I was lucky enough to meet him at IMTS through some friends, he took us all out for dinner with his family even though we had just met him. Crazymillman is a first class guy with tons of knowledge to share, I appreciate that he still comes here to offer help to others.

[gcode]

16 minutes ago, BILL HUNTER said:

Anybody in any country can do it and it is no longer considered a skilled trade like an electrician or plumber. The pay is low, the benefits suk, and the BS is high.

If that is what you think of your programmers I can see why you are getting poor results.

I did offer to help, though you didn't have the courtesy to even reply.

Just as well, If you really believe that statement, I can't help you

[crazy^millman]

19 minutes ago, BILL HUNTER said:

Crazy miller hurling childish insults like a 3 year old. I suspect he is here only to make him feel good about himself for not getting very far in life. I think he lives here and needs a constant pat on the back to make it through the day.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL 

Okay one second while I catch my breathe. 

.

.

.

.

LOLOLOLOL. 

Thanks you made my day I really needed a good laugh. Carry on. 

[gcode]

2 hours ago, BILL HUNTER said:

The trunion itself weighs at least 40,000 pounds.

Maybe this one ???

Mitusi Seiki HU100-5XLL  a very nice machine!!!!

we looked at that machine, but bought this one instead

Okuma MU-1000   with an HSK 125 spindle

mostly because the Okuma was 4 month delivery. the Mitsui was 18-24 month

we use it to build vanes, impellers and diffusers for the natural gas industry

 

 

[BILL HUNTER]

On 8/13/2020 at 11:06 AM, gcode said:

Maybe this one ???

Mitusi Seiki HU100-5XLL  a very nice machine!!!!

we looked at that machine, but bought this one instead

Okuma MU-1000   with an HSK 125 spindle

mostly because the Okuma was 4 month delivery. the Mitsui was 18-24 month

we use it to build vanes, impellers and diffusers for the natural gas industry

 

 

You were wise to choose Okuma. Mori is not what it used to be since DMG arrived. Our is just a small amount bigger. Aside from the burdensome safety features it is an okay machine. One thing I do not like is the machine's lack of dynamics due to the weight of the trunion and table. Even if those were taken out of the picture the accuracy of the Y-axis during Dynamic tool paths is deplorable. At 200ipm if you do not use G5 you will scrap a part even if you leave .05" wall stock.