Lathe Stock Flip a Stock Model...

[Greg_J]

Hello,

Is seems to mirror the stock and not flip it. Can someone confirm this?

Is there anyway to have it flip and not mirror?

I'm using a Mazak Integrex and it would be nice to use stock model for my second setup instead of creating a STL file for my stock.

Too bad you can't save stock as a solid and save it to a level then rotate the stock on that level or something like that.

How would you create a stock simulation for the second setup?

 

TIA,

Greg

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Greg_J said:

Hello,

Is seems to mirror the stock and not flip it. Can someone confirm this?

Is there anyway to have it flip and not mirror?

I'm using a Mazak Integrex and it would be nice to use stock model for my second setup instead of creating a STL file for my stock.

Too bad you can't save stock as a solid and save it to a level then rotate the stock on that level or something like that.

How would you create a stock simulation for the second setup?

 

TIA,

Greg

 

Use the rotate function to orient the panel 180 degrees (upside down) then the translate function to move it into position, or if you know the centerpoint just rotate it around that

[Greg_J]

I don't see a rotate function in the Stock Flip or in the Stock Model.

Thanks for the reply.

[crazy^millman]

17 minutes ago, Greg_J said:

Hello,

Is seems to mirror the stock and not flip it. Can someone confirm this?

Is there anyway to have it flip and not mirror?

I'm using a Mazak Integrex and it would be nice to use stock model for my second setup instead of creating a STL file for my stock.

Too bad you can't save stock as a solid and save it to a level then rotate the stock on that level or something like that.

How would you create a stock simulation for the second setup?

 

TIA,

Greg

 

Greg making a solid from a STL is the Holy Grail of CAM. When someone does it making Geometric Shaped Watertight Solids the CAM world will be flipped on it's head. What I did back in the X4 days was make the Turned Stock of everything I turned and then took the Milling toolpaths and saved the back plotted geometry and made solid using them. We were running production parts and the time saving justified the work it took going about it that way. Don't forget about the make Spun Stock from Stock Model that was introduced in 2020.

Lately I have been using Model Prep to make Models that are not 100% exact, but close enough to what each operation is and using them as my stock models for Integrex Operations. I did a Part with 2 handlings for an Integrex a few months ago and we had to gun drill it with a false center spud left on it and then do milling and turning then remove the false center and machine a d slot in the end of the part. We Transferred it and then finished it off complete in the Right Spindle. We Prepared it on a HMC putting a Round Grab Diameter and timing slot since the material was rectangular we started with and False Center Spud on the other End. Then a roughing operation on the Intergrex to get most of the meat off it to get any stress or movement out of the material to do the last 2 finishing operations. All the stock models were solid made with Model Prep. A little more time, but at the end well worth it to have good solids to work from for each operation. Just given you something to think about in your approach that is hopefully helpful.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Greg_J said:

I don't see a rotate function in the Stock Flip or in the Stock Model.

Thanks for the reply.

Convert it to pmesh and rotate it using dynamic xform

1 minute ago, crazy^millman said:

Greg making a solid from a STL is the Holy Grail of CAM.

Oh is that what he was asking?

[crazy^millman]

9 minutes ago, byte said:

Convert it to pmesh and rotate it using dynamic xform

Oh is that what he was asking?

God suggestion on the Pmesh.

Not sure, but it has been asked many times over the years so just throwing out my crazy 3 Year old Welfare take on it.

[Guest]

Just now, crazy^millman said:

God suggestion on the Pmesh.

Not sure, but it has been asked many times over the years so just throwing out my crazy 3 Year old Welfare take on it.

The stl is made of triangles right, so rendering those triangles as surfaces should be easy

[crazy^millman]

10 minutes ago, byte said:

The stl is made of triangles right, so rendering those triangles as surfaces should be easy

Problem is the Chain network need to make them a surface. Then when a software starts fitting surfaces and runs into a shape edge it doesn't know what to do with the crisp edges. In reverse engineering I always liked to mix Geometric shapes with Free form shapes. Get as much Planes, Cones, Circles, Spheres and other true shapes as I could and then use the Point clouds for the free form shapes when precision mattered. The STL coming out of Mastercam is a good shape and I can take them using Verisurf Reverse and make some pretty impressive Solids from them, but it is a ton of work. Plenty of Reversing Software make the claim of point and shoot and here is your solid model, but the reality of that is still not there. Good things are happening and when you trace it back to NIST and their Geometric Shape fitting requirements you understanding the bigger picture of what it takes and what it requires starts to become understandable. I was doing it with Verniers Calipers, Micrometers, Shadow Graphs and Pencil and Paper 25+ years ago so it has come a very long way since then, but not a simple point and shoot process. Again probably off on a tangent.

[Greg_J]

Thanks for the replies.

I just want to clarify because I think my question was misunderstood.

I start by defining the stock shape in the Lathe stock setup properties, in this case Ø8.25" x 12.0" round bar.

I create my lathe and mill programs then at the end I create a lathe stock flip program so I can start machining setup two.

I copy the solid from setup 1 to a new level and rename it setup 2 and I rotate it and translate it into the correct position.

Then I create a Stock Model for all of setup one programs including the stock flip and I use that Stock Models for my stock in Verify for my setup 2 programs.

The problem I'm having is that that Stock Model is not orientated correctly to my setup 2 solid, the Stock Model is mirrored. I want to be able to fix that.

 

Back in the day I use to create a stl file when I was done using Verify and I would rotate/translate that stl to match my next setup. Works great like you said Ron but I like to use the Stock model now because it keeps all my data in one file.

Converting a mesh to a solid is a hard task and most software can not to it, it's crashes almost all programs that I know of or it won't even attempt it by spitting out an error. A mesh with 8 million polys will cripple a computer trying to turn it into a solid.

[crazy^millman]

10 minutes ago, Greg_J said:

Thanks for the replies.

I just want to clarify because I think my question was misunderstood.

I start by defining the stock shape in the Lathe stock setup properties, in this case Ø8.25" x 12.0" round bar.

I create my lathe and mill programs then at the end I create a lathe stock flip program so I can start machining setup two.

I copy the solid from setup 1 to a new level and rename it setup 2 and I rotate it and translate it into the correct position.

Then I create a Stock Model for all of setup one programs including the stock flip and I use that Stock Models for my stock in Verify for my setup 2 programs.

The problem I'm having is that that Stock Model is not orientated correctly to my setup 2 solid, the Stock Model is mirrored. I want to be able to fix that.

 

Back in the day I use to create a stl file when I was done using Verify and I would rotate/translate that stl to match my next setup. Works great like you said Ron but I like to use the Stock model now because it keeps all my data in one file.

Converting a mesh to a solid is a hard task and most software can not to it, it's crashes almost all programs that I know of or it won't even attempt it by spitting out an error. A mesh with 8 million polys will cripple a computer trying to turn it into a solid.

Sorry I haven't had to flip a part in so long I can't say anything to be helpful on that front, but doing what Peter said and making a Pmesh and working with the Pmesh to make a new Stock Model might be your best choice from what I am gathering from your situation.

[K2csq7]

2 hours ago, Greg_J said:

Too bad you can't save stock as a solid and save it to a level then rotate the stock on that level or something like that.

It will not help with the milling, but right click in the ops manager - Turning stock preview - hit the little arrows in the upper left to expand the window - select save geo - solids - choose the boundaries you want to get solids from and green check.  Now you have a solid of the lathe stock....

The stock flip of a stock model being mirrored is a known issue.

You can get around this by using 2 stock models - 1 to get the stock to the point just before flipping the stock, and the 2nd to flip the stock.  Do not include the stock flip op in the 2nd stock model, just use a custom plane to control the flip. 

[nickbe10]

3 hours ago, Greg_J said:

Is there anyway to have it flip and not mirror?

If you write the whole program with the stock flip as an OP in the middle it will take care of the flip during verify and you will end up with an STL in the correct orientation for any Operation you verify up to.