Bob W.

Mastercam for DMG-Mori NTX2000

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I'm starting a new thread on this so it will show up on any future searches on the subject.  I had my training last Friday and everything looks good but I do have a few questions.  I don't see any custom drill parameters, misc integers, or misc reals.  How are shops activating tool break detection or putting the machine into roughing or finishing mode?  We use misc integers for both of these things and it is critical to how we run.  Can these features be activated or am I stuck editing this into all of my programs?  I really hope not because that would be such a waste of time, risky, and repetitive.

Also, Mastercam posts G10.9 for both the upper and lower turrets which alarms my machine every time.  If I manually edit it out the machine runs fine.  It can be turned off on the lower turret but not on the upper turret.  This is a known issue and I'm curious what other shops have done for a permanent fix.  I hope we aren't at square one of the long protracted process the Mori AE warned me about for getting our post working.  There is another local company that spent a few months trying to get Mastercam working edit-free before buying Esprit and the G10.9 issue was one that they faced, and solved, as well.  Yet here it is...

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29 minutes ago, Bob W. said:

I'm starting a new thread on this so it will show up on any future searches on the subject.  I had my training last Friday and everything looks good but I do have a few questions.  I don't see any custom drill parameters, misc integers, or misc reals.  How are shops activating tool break detection or putting the machine into roughing or finishing mode?  We use misc integers for both of these things and it is critical to how we run.  Can these features be activated or am I stuck editing this into all of my programs?  I really hope not because that would be such a waste of time, risky, and repetitive.

Also, Mastercam posts G10.9 for both the upper and lower turrets which alarms my machine every time.  If I manually edit it out the machine runs fine.  It can be turned off on the lower turret but not on the upper turret.  This is a known issue and I'm curious what other shops have done for a permanent fix.  I hope we aren't at square one of the long protracted process the Mori AE warned me about for getting our post working.  There is another local company that spent a few months trying to get Mastercam working edit-free before buying Esprit and the G10.9 issue was one that they faced, and solved, as well.  Yet here it is...

Everything related to the misc integers and reals is shifted in MT to the Code Expert. Once you have what you want you can set them in the consumer side to get the output you are looking for. Yes all the features can be added. Not sure about the G10.9 issue and sure hope this doesn't drag out for a long period of time.

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The G10.9 issue just got fixed.  MCAM NW has been very responsive for sure.  Where would I look in the consumer side for adding misc integers and reals, or the input field for break check?

 

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Hi Bob,

With Mastercam's new Mill-Turn Product, there is a new workflow to be aware of.

Code Expert now acts as a "Simulation Layer" between Mastercam and the output of NC Code.

Everything you used to control at the "Operation Level" in Mastercam (through custom "input" to the Post Processor), is now done in the Simulation Layer (Code Expert).

Moving these "inputs" to the Code Expert Simulation Layer is simply a new method of working, and for Mill-Turn, this is the new tool that you've got to familiarize yourself with.

Rather than using "Misc Values" as input, Mastercam Code Expert uses "Tokens".

You can think of a Token as a "Variable with Properties".

Many of the Tokens in the Simulation Layer are now "bi-directional", meaning they get saved, and 'persist', even if you need to 'Re-Post' the Operation Level Code, and send new Ops to Code Expert.

There are "User Level Tokens", which you should be able to set. (They may have to be "Exposed" so you can use them.)

These Tokens will handle things like "controlling Tool Breakage Detection", but can also represent things like Sync Code and Wait Code Controls.

Again, you'll need to set these Tokens at the Simulation Layer (inside Code Expert), rather than at the Operation Level.

Although Misc. Values (reals and integers) provided a fairly easy mechanism for the average user to understand (and use), it took a lot of work on the Post Processor Side, to be able to "guess your intent", for how your code and workflow.

Moreover, activating, deactivating, and tracking, "what machine mode" you are in, and "what machine mode" do you want to activate, gets squirrelly, real quick.

You asked in a different thread about "how do I just position the C-Axis,  instead of XY cutting, for a drill path?". Sometimes that is handled by specific "operation type and/or order", but most of the time a Token would be used to determine the Machine Mode, and cutting options (What M-Codes to activate, Accel/Decel Mode, and things like Tool Breakage Detection).

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Is there any way to tie coolant settings to the tool or does it always need to be done operation by operation in the sync manager?  Also, do these need to be reset every time the program is posted or do the sync manager settings persist?

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1 minute ago, Bob W. said:

Is there any way to tie coolant settings to the tool or does it always need to be done operation by operation in the sync manager?  Also, do these need to be reset every time the program is posted or do the sync manager settings persist?

To the best of my knowledge, you need to set them....and they reset every new program...

The good thing at least is they persist in the program...

If someone knows a different way I am all ears

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12 minutes ago, Bob W. said:

Is there any way to tie coolant settings to the tool or does it always need to be done operation by operation in the sync manager?  Also, do these need to be reset every time the program is posted or do the sync manager settings persist?

Consumer Tokens control this. Go to the Output Settings and change whatever you want as your defaults and every time a file is loaded it will populate into that file and done. Make sure you save the machine so it takes. I forget to save it sometimes and then wonder why I have to do it again. It normally asks when you close do you want to save the machine. Then I reread the question, by tool not that I am aware of this is a general across the board setting.

image.png

 

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7 minutes ago, JParis said:

To the best of my knowledge, you need to set them....and they reset every new program...

The good thing at least is they persist in the program...

If someone knows a different way I am all ears

Yes, after messing with it a bit the coolant settings need to be reset every time I post from Mastercam.  I really can't believe this, what a colossal waste of time, and risky in things getting missed or screwed up.

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11 minutes ago, JParis said:

To the best of my knowledge, you need to set them....and they reset every new program...

The good thing at least is they persist in the program...

If someone knows a different way I am all ears

Is this related to slavecams topic?

 

He dropped some source code for setting tool coolant parameters..

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3 minutes ago, byte me said:

Is this related to slavecams topic?

 

No, he's talking about standard coolant in Mastercam..not MT

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7 minutes ago, byte me said:

Is this related to slavecams topic?

 

Afraid not they are using MP.NET for the MT not Standard MP so none of that far as I know will work or apply. In Standard Mastercam we right click on our tool and change things using Edit Common Parameter. The decision was made to remove all that functionality and capability and port it over to Code Expert. You can still do the same thing and grab 20 operations all using the same tool and change them in the operations inside code expert, but just not the same as standard Mastercam. If you only program in MT all day not a big deal, but for programming like John. Myself, Bob and others who use many parts and pieces of the software this process creates issues in continuity with developed consistent methods and practices we have muscle memory for.

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32 minutes ago, JParis said:

f someone knows a different way I am all ears

 

17 minutes ago, JParis said:

No, he's talking about standard coolant in Mastercam..not MT

In that case, if there is no automated solution, you could always edit the code after post with an application of some sort.

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1 hour ago, crazy^millman said:

Consumer Tokens control this. Go to the Output Settings and change whatever you want as your defaults and every time a file is loaded it will populate into that file and done.

image.png

 

Can you give a brief description of the strategies?  I assume these are global to the entire program?  Do the various strategies need to be defined?  If so, how?  What are the available parameters or variables?

Thanks to everyone for the help on this, I really appreciate it.

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1 minute ago, Bob W. said:

Can you give a brief description of the strategies?  I assume these are global to the entire program?  Do the various strategies need to be defined?  If so, how?  What are the available parameters or variables?

Bob,

The different styles of coolant available on the particular machine..you  M8, Flood,, M51 Thru Spindle , M130 Waterfall...those are Mazak but you get the idea...

They were anyway something that had to be set by a higher power and you could also have them renamed as well... 

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3 minutes ago, JParis said:

Bob,

The different styles of coolant available on the particular machine..you  M8, Flood,, M51 Thru Spindle , M130 Waterfall...those are Mazak but you get the idea...

They were anyway something that had to be set by a higher power and you could also have them renamed as well... 

Right, I see those in the sync manager for each operation and they appear to be labeled correctly for my machine.  In Crazy's screen shot of the token section it only showed strategy 1, 2, 3, etc...  How do these get populated?

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1 hour ago, Bob W. said:

Yes, after messing with it a bit the coolant settings need to be reset every time I post from Mastercam.  I really can't believe this, what a colossal waste of time, and risky in things getting missed or screwed up.

OFI !!!

Opportunity For Improvement!

Submit an enhancement request... :sofa:

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5 minutes ago, Bob W. said:

How do these get populated?

Pretty sure a section we don't have access to...I mean your listing should show what's available

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45 minutes ago, Newbeeee™ said:

OFI !!!

Opportunity For Improvement!

Submit an enhancement request... :sofa:

Yes, the goal is to reduce the number of steps required to get a part to the machine and we put a ton of effort into just that.  Modifying posts, writing macros for in-machine process checks, etc...  All in an effort to REDUCE the number of steps and also the number of opportunities for a mistake or oversight.  This kind of goes against that by adding additional steps (that are automatic for milling) in the sync manager.

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1 hour ago, JParis said:

Bob,

The different styles of coolant available on the particular machine..you  M8, Flood,, M51 Thru Spindle , M130 Waterfall...those are Mazak but you get the idea...

They were anyway something that had to be set by a higher power and you could also have them renamed as well... 

This is correct this machine has 12 different ones. I didn't like the way it was labeled, but that was requested to be done that way by the customer so I just worked with it.

1 hour ago, JParis said:

Pretty sure a section we don't have access to...I mean your listing should show what's available

Yes every consumer has a section they have access to in MT. I have helped many customers over the years with MT. I touch enough to be proficient with it, but not something I use day in and day out. Everything environment has its own settings and each user has to take the time to get to know that environment. The toolpaths and other things you are use to are there, but some are removed so don't be surprised when one is missing that was done on purpose.

24 minutes ago, Bob W. said:

Yes, the goal is to reduce the number of steps required to get a part to the machine and we put a ton of effort into just that.  Modifying posts, writing macros for in-machine process checks, etc...  All in an effort to REDUCE the number of steps and also the number of opportunities for a mistake or oversight.  This kind of goes against that by adding additional steps (that are automatic for milling) in the sync manager.

Agree and hopefully you get things dialed in and running like you need to. You know how to reach me if I can help.

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33 minutes ago, Bob W. said:

Yes, the goal is to reduce the number of steps required to get a part to the machine and we put a ton of effort into just that.  Modifying posts, writing macros for in-machine process checks, etc...  All in an effort to REDUCE the number of steps and also the number of opportunities for a mistake or oversight.  This kind of goes against that by adding additional steps (that are automatic for milling) in the sync manager.

Oh I get you Bob = 100%.

But seriously, I just cannot believe that the coolant is done this way and not saved with the tool during setup.

I guess everything is done for a reason...I'm struggling to think of a good one though for not saving the settings...

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^^^^  Hey Newbeeee  

Your just not thinking hard enough  i am sure someone had a reason at the time or maybe they overlooked it ? And now we have more folks looking i am sure .

:wallbash:

:cheers:

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17 hours ago, Bob W. said:

Can you give a brief description of the strategies?  I assume these are global to the entire program?  Do the various strategies need to be defined?  If so, how?  What are the available parameters or variables?

Thanks to everyone for the help on this, I really appreciate it.

The coolant options (strat 1, 2, etc...)  are only editable by your reseller.  If you hover your mouse over the option it will describe it.  They can alter what each one does, when it does it and how it's named.  May be best to describe your most used coolant combinations (IE through tool coolant, and flood coolant, on after approach, off before retract) and have your VAR make the post changes.

For the mean time there is very little post editing allowed in Millturn by the end user.  It's my understanding that Mastercam has done this deliberately as they are actively developing and changing how the software works.  In each release i think you will see more and more options available to the user as they solidify things.

Coolant Strats.PNG

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Paul would be the one to speak on the design decisions, but my guess (from experiencing the same thing on the the hole making side) is that he couldn't figure out a way to deal with the classic Mastercam flexibility problem with coolant cycles, the same way we're constantly running into issues with Drill cycles. 

For example, in "normal" mill, you go into your drill toolpath and set it to be cycle #8, a special slow,fast,slow drilling cycle you made for doing alumilite or something.   The order in the list is determined by your Control Parameters.  The values and fields available to edit are set through there as well.   Now, you change your machine type and post.  The new machine was using the generic mpfan, which has cycle #8 as a rigid tap cycle.   There's no way for us to know on the program side what the NC output will be.  In this case, you're going to get your rigid tap cycle and all of your parameters will be thrown away.

There's been a lot of refinements and improvements I haven't been able to make because it would throw away 38 years of precedence that the drill cycles are set by the control def/post.  I can't rely on position #1 being regular drill cycle, #2 being peck, etc.  

Coolant is even worse since it's so scenario-based with the newer stuff supporting before, with, after, and MT machines having such flexibility such as variable pressure coolant pumps needing misc values to control them, it was entirely possible that you needed a coolant cycle that started after your plunge and turned on thru-tool @ 60% pressure or whatever.   That's why if you use Advanced Drill in MT, you don't even have the option to set the coolant for individual segments.  The MT team asked me to just let people control it by the Code field and they could control it globally for the toolpath in Code Expert.

My guess is they made the call to take that completely away from the toolpaths themselves so that by controlling it through Code Expert after the fact, you always knew exactly what you were going to get and when you were going to get it.  No surprises.

tl;dr:  Talk to your reseller about getting it customized for your needs :)

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Nicely explained answer (as always) Aaron.

Not trying to bust you here....but why aren't the settings then saved?

:cheers:

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38 minutes ago, Newbeeee™ said:

Nicely explained answer (as always) Aaron.

Not trying to bust you here....but why aren't the settings then saved?

:cheers:

I'll have to defer to someone with more knowledge as I only dabble on the MT side.  But in general, if the options are either to set a default behavior (this toolpath ALWAYS has X or ALWAYS DOES NOT have X), in the case where it's situational (I'd want X only when this AND this are true), the option is generally left off out of the box.  It's a better/more predictable experience to always have to to flip a switch because you need it on 75% of the time than to remember to turn it off 25% of the time, especially if that 25% of the time could be dangerous.

I believe that the default state of coolant commands and such are controlled by the machine environment, though, and are customizable to the users preference by the dealer, but I'm not 100% on that, so don't quote me on it :)

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