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Carbide thru tool drill recommendations


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3 minutes ago, AHarrison1 said:

My tooling guy said brands like Walter and Mitsubishi were on the higher end pricing wise. He gave me some quotes for Nachi and YG and was curious if anybody had anything to say about these cheaper brands?

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45 minutes ago, Tinger said:

My tooling guy said brands like Walter and Mitsubishi were on the higher end pricing wise. He gave me some quotes for Nachi and YG and was curious if anybody had anything to say about these cheaper brands?

I've always found that you get what you pay for.

Every single Tool Salesman wants to sell you "their tools", and will work every angle to get their tools into your shop.

I've always been a fan of pitting the Salesmen against each-other, whenever possible. In this way, you can often find the best performance-for-dollar ratio.

I generally use:

Mitsubishi, OSG, Walter-Titex, Kennametal, Iscar, Mikron, and Sandvik for Coolant-Through Drills.

My thoughts being this:

  • What is the Tool Life (Holes Drilled) versus Drill Cost? This gives you the "Dollars/Cents per Hole".
  • Is there an option for Re-Grind and/or Re-Coat after grinding? Often the right coating might give you 2X-10X the number of holes. If that is the case, it can be more cost effective sometimes to just "buy the right tool", and "get all the use you can out of it", before replacing it with a brand-new "fresh" tool. I've seen re-grinds that won't run at 100% feed rate, so the operator ends up turning down the Feed Override knob to 50%. This just means each hole now takes twice as long to drill as they should, and you aren't making the same production rate with those re-grinds, as you would with a fresh drill.
  • I have not used drills from either company you mentioned, but I would recommend you do a head-to-head comparison between the tool companies, if possible. Don't tell them that they are competing, as the first thing they will want to know is what their competitor is doing. See how many holes can be drilled, what the salesman recommends for speeds/feeds, and what kind of hole tolerance/quality you are getting from these tools. Ask for a Demo Tool, and do a fair comparison between the brands.
  • Coolant pressure and flow-rate will have a big effect on how hard you can push both large and small drills. With small drills, you've got to get higher PSI, just to be able to get any chip blasting. This is due to the small coolant orifices. For the larger drills, they often have monstrously large coolant holes, and here you need a hi-pressure pump with enough flow-rate to maintain the hydraulic pressure inside the drilled hole, to flush the chips. This is where it really pays to get a good hi-pressure coolant pump system. 
  • One of the things I worry about with "cheaper" drills is the consistency of the orifice diameter (you want the same pressure drill-to-drill), and the quality of the tool grind. How good is their quality control? I don't want to setup a process where I'm expecting "500 holes per drill" based on testing, and then come to find out that some drills make it 600 holes, while others blow up after 380 holes. These numbers are all hypothetical in this example, but the principle still stands. It comes back to Quality Control standards.
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On 10/1/2020 at 2:39 PM, Tinger said:

Hey All,

I'm looking for a decent middle of the road carbide drill brand with thru tool coolant holes. What brands could you guys recommend? 

Does anyone have experience with the YG Dream Drills? Nachi REVO drills? 

I've tested the YG drills and didn't like them. I haven't tried the Nachi Revo drill but I love their flat bottom drills. We mainly use Mitsubishi  along with Ghuring to fill the gaps. Kennametal coolant thru flat bottom drills work nicely for counter drilling cap screw holes but they have chamfered corners which eliminates them for a lot of our parts.

For a little lower priced coolant thru drill I would recommend Ghuring. They also make nice end mills.

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On 10/2/2020 at 11:33 PM, gcode said:

MA Ford

Good drills

good prices

Made in the USA

The last i knew MA Ford was contracted to regrind drills for Mitsubishi but with the Mitsu grind. An MA Ford sales rep told our tool crib guy that MA Ford was licensed to use that grind on their drills. Our Mitsu rep says that isn't so and he was going to check into it. I have not  heard anything since.

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2 hours ago, Matthew Hajicek - Conventus said:

I've used OSG, Kennametal, Redline, Harvey, and a few others.  For me the deciding factor is usually which drill I can get first, and it usually only has to make a few parts.  They've all met my needs.

This is one of the reasons I generally like Harvey Tool. They stock just about every single tool in their catalog. There is usually very little lead time.

Mikron also has Coolant Through "Crazy Drills", at something like 40xD. They generally don't stock much above 6mm in diameter, but for small drills I like them a lot. Check out their Pilot Drill solutions as well. They have a Flat Bottom Pilot that can engage angled faces for a clean drill start.

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If size allows we almost always use insert drills. We use Iscar SumoCham drills for almost everything we can. 

A while back, when I worked for the Okuma dist, I had a customer that did a pretty extensive test on drills. He compared Mits, Guhring, Walter, and Iscar SumCham insert drills in 316 stainless. He made a big spreadsheet that accounted for original purchase, resharpening, replacement steel bodies, cycle time, etc. The Insert drills were 20%-40% less cost per hole.

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15 hours ago, YoDoug® said:

If size allows we almost always use insert drills. We use Iscar SumoCham drills for almost everything we can. 

A while back, when I worked for the Okuma dist, I had a customer that did a pretty extensive test on drills. He compared Mits, Guhring, Walter, and Iscar SumCham insert drills in 316 stainless. He made a big spreadsheet that accounted for original purchase, resharpening, replacement steel bodies, cycle time, etc. The Insert drills were 20%-40% less cost per hole.

Did he try the seco performax insert drills in his test as well? I routinely drill holes in the 1.5"-3" range with seco, sumitomo and kennametal stuff and these performax drills seems to last the longest and gives me a better quality hole. The problem is I don't really have a large test range to compare it to.

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For solid carbide drills we use Guhring, Mitsubishi, Nachi, and Mikron. We also use the Nachi powdered metal drills. Mikron and Mits are the ones we use for most applications under .150". Nachi gives not quite as good of hole quality compared to Guhring or Mits it seems but is lower cost. 

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  • 2 months later...
On 10/1/2020 at 1:05 PM, Colin Gilchrist said:

Coolant pressure and flow-rate will have a big effect on how hard you can push both large and small drills. With small drills, you've got to get higher PSI, just to be able to get any chip blasting. This is due to the small coolant orifices. For the larger drills, they often have monstrously large coolant holes, and here you need a hi-pressure pump with enough flow-rate to maintain the hydraulic pressure inside the drilled hole, to flush the chips. This is where it really pays to get a good hi-pressure coolant pump system. 

 one more important point to add is the fact that you also need a good filtration system, 3 microns or better, coolant through the spindle drills often fail as a result of poor filtration when smaller chips make their way into the drill orifices.

I'm mostly used Mitsubishi's MVS line because of their wide assortment of sizes and lengths. 

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11 hours ago, Compaq007 said:

 one more important point to add is the fact that you also need a good filtration system, 3 microns or better, coolant through the spindle drills often fail as a result of poor filtration when smaller chips make their way into the drill orifices.

I'm mostly used Mitsubishi's MVS line because of their wide assortment of sizes and lengths. 

Good coolant filtration is a must for any hi-pressure coolant system. The worst is when a customer actually does add a good filter, but then doesn't consider actually changing the filter on a regular schedule. (Or even looking at the filter periodically, to check its condition.) Then, they call you in a panic on a Friday afternoon, because they are going to loose a weekend's production due to a plugged filter that they don't have a replacement for. :D

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So I've started to buy YG Dream drills and I have to say I'm liking them so far! I'm using them in a job shop environment so no crazy production numbers on them. I went with them because of pricing. Being a job shop I need many sizes so their pricing helps. Going from hss/cobalt drills to carbide has been amazing... they don't walk and has made drilling materials like ss a breeze...

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  • 2 years later...
On 10/1/2020 at 11:39 AM, Tinger said:

Hey All,

I'm looking for a decent middle of the road carbide drill brand with thru tool coolant holes. What brands could you guys recommend? 

Does anyone have experience with the YG Dream Drills? Nachi REVO drills? 

Nachi drills are very good performance. Expensive doesn't mean it is the best. I have used Mitsubishi products, indeed they are one of the best tools. Their price is sky rocketing. Nachi is best fit cost saving up to 70% comparing Mitsubishi carbide drills.

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