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New Machine - Porta


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Boss ordered a new machine today. 

https://www.porta-solutions.com/en/portacenter-machines/

New to us, just wondering if anyone has any experience with this or what to expect with it?

I personally ran a Parpas XS63 for a few years, and had 3 Parpas machines at another company, loved the machines but weren't very reliable. Heard that was Italian machines in general, but just curious. 

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Nice looking machine, but no never seen one in production. Looks pretty straight forward to program. Biggest thing is the the fixturing and work holding. I didn't see a robot arm inside to move the parts so curious how that happens. Maybe they make a coolant activated clamping device to go into a tool holder pocket and then use it to transfer from one holding to another. As it looked no way to do one side complete and then flip in the machine and finish the other side out. Seems like they are just 3 Spindles all doing pretty much the same thing or you might be able to integrate a robotic arm into the process. 3 Spindles cutting at one time in the about the same space as a HMC is good, but putting this in a cell or having a FMS part of it would be what I would want to see.

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2 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

Nice looking machine, but no never seen one in production. Looks pretty straight forward to program. Biggest thing is the the fixturing and work holding. I didn't see a robot arm inside to move the parts so curious how that happens. Maybe they make a coolant activated clamping device to go into a tool holder pocket and then use it to transfer from one holding to another. As it looked no way to do one side complete and then flip in the machine and finish the other side out. Seems like they are just 3 Spindles all doing pretty much the same thing or you might be able to integrate a robotic arm into the process. 3 Spindles cutting at one time in the about the same space as a HMC is good, but putting this in a cell or having a FMS part of it would be what I would want to see.

It's a rotary transfer style machine. The four workstations index from spindle to spindle. Load/unload at one station, then each station after machines a little more of the part. 

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55 minutes ago, YoDoug® said:

It's a rotary transfer style machine. The four workstations index from spindle to spindle. Load/unload at one station, then each station after machines a little more of the part. 

Doug thank you and I think I get the concept, but that was not what they were showing on the website. They had 3 of the same parts all being made the same way. Normally with a rotary transfer that is what happens, but I didn't see anything on the website showing where and how they support that process which ii why I was making the comments. Did you see something on the website I didn't that talked about how they do the transfer process between each station automatically?

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5 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

Doug thank you and I think I get the concept, but that was not what they were showing on the website. They had 3 of the same parts all being made the same way. Normally with a rotary transfer that is what happens, but I didn't see anything on the website showing where and how they support that process which ii why I was making the comments. Did you see something on the website I didn't that talked about how they do the transfer process between each station automatically?

At the 2 min mark they show the parts being indexed between spindles. 

 

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1 minute ago, YoDoug® said:

At the 2 min mark they show the parts being indexed between spindles. 

 

We are thinking two different things. They are machining 3 faces of the part using the 3 spindles to achieve that. I am saying you have a part that needs 6 sides machined on it what is the automatic process in the machine to transfer it from one holding to the next holding to machine the part complete in that process inside of the machine without having to send to the load station. The part in the video just needs 3 sides machined, but what about parts that needs 5 or 6 or more sides machined that cannot be gotten to from one holding? What is their process inside of the machine to manage that? A FMS system does it with a pallet pool or any other machines that have more than one holding station as part of the process to machine the parts.

In application like shown hands down very impressive, but in those not standard processes where you need more capability is what I thinking about out loud.

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14 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

We are thinking two different things. They are machining 3 faces of the part using the 3 spindles to achieve that. I am saying you have a part that needs 6 sides machined on it what is the automatic process in the machine to transfer it from one holding to the next holding to machine the part complete in that process inside of the machine without having to send to the load station. The part in the video just needs 3 sides machined, but what about parts that needs 5 or 6 or more sides machined that cannot be gotten to from one holding? What is their process inside of the machine to manage that? A FMS system does it with a pallet pool or any other machines that have more than one holding station as part of the process to machine the parts.

In application like shown hands down very impressive, but in those not standard processes where you need more capability is what I thinking about out loud.

I got ya! I know in the Hydromat systems I have seen they would have a robot loading and unload from outside the machine. 

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I have worked with the Porta Multicenter before using Mastercam. They are very nice machines that come with the Fanuc or Siemens control. I have only worked with the Fanuc version of the machine. They also have an option that gives it  a 4 + 1 by M-code. this will allow you to rotate the part  as a fifth axis from 0 to 90 only. This gives you the ability  to machine unreachable areas without having another clamping.   Spreading the work across 3 spindles allows you to balance the cycle time and produce parts faster. This would be the same as taking a process that runs on 1 HMC and splitting it up across 3 HMC's  reducing the total cycle time. 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Craig-B said:

I have worked with the Porta Multicenter before using Mastercam. They are very nice machines that come with the Fanuc or Siemens control. I have only worked with the Fanuc version of the machine. They also have an option the gives it  a 4 + 1 by M-code. this will allow you to rotate the part  as a fifth axis from 0 to 90 only. This gives you the ability  to machine unreachable areas without having another clamping.   Spreading the work across 3 spindles allows you to balance the cycle time and produce parts faster. This would be the same as taking a process that runs on 1 HMC and splitting it up across 3 HMC's  reducing the total cycle time. 

 

 

Now we are talking. That would be neat to program. I totally get the concept and think it is practical. I am just not sure how many shops will be getting one I know.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for the replies guys. Machine should be delivered this week I believe. Yes, very high production on a part this company has been machining for years, production is ramping up significantly. This is supposed to reduce our cycle time from 50 seconds on a Brother, to 14 seconds. Will be changed by robotically. 

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6 minutes ago, Matthew Hajicek - Conventus said:

Could you fit four Brothers with automated loading in the same footprint and price?

That is the normal selling objection when selling that type of machine. When I worked for a Hydromat distributor a lot of companies would see the quote and say why wouldn't I just buy x number of robodrills or other small machine. There are advantages to multiple machines. They allow for down time without losing all production, as well as the ability to run different parts when production needs change. 

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