LATHE 2020 - Tool problems

[Shoggoth_2150]

First let me say, I hate Mastecam Lathe and rarely use it. I'd much rather spit out a MAZAROL program because it's so much easier. That being said, not everything can go on a MAZAK, so I have no choice but to fight with Mastercam. I hate how you have to draw out geometry for every step of every operation. I've done so many of the training tutorials, but none have ever helped out with the basics. The problem I'm having now is trying to set up a tool for face grooving. I select the face grooving option in the GROOVE unit, and it supposedly puts the tool in the right orientation, but whenever I backplot or try to regen the toolpath, it has the tool in the orientation for the OD, and the first thing I get is the warning that my tool is embedded in the part. WTF??? Nothing changes the orientation that I can find. And when you try to create a boring bar, it puts it in that upright orientation as well. Tool orientation is a mystery. Having the tool set the right way seems pretty important. Mastercam Lathe sucks. Why's it got to be so hard and convoluted. I can whip up 4 and 5-axis toolpaths for days on the mills, but 2 axis lathe is all but impossible to get working. Can't get it to do anything outside the box. Any hints, tips, or tricks would be welcome. File attached.

LATHE PART.mcam

[#Rekd™]

Your tool is not defined properly, for this type of groove that is inside a bore will require a straight tool instead of a 90 degree tool. Then use the Draw Tool command to see if it is correct.

The holder dimension is not correct either, you have D and A the same dimension.

[Shoggoth_2150]

12 minutes ago, #Rekd™ said:

Your tool is not defined properly. Go into Setup tool and set the plunge parameters to 180. Then use the Draw Tool command to see if it is correct.

The holder dimension is not correct either, you have D and A the same dimension.

Draw just puts the tool backwards when I do that. No matter what I change, the insert is still in the Up/Down orientation with the shank embedded in the part.. Get a nice warning now about shared tool files as well. Is there no face grooving boring bars to be found in Mastercam anywhere? I shouldn't have to be trying to cheat an OD tool for such a simple task, should I?

 

[JParis]

There was so much wrong with that I am not even sure if I am representing your cut as you wish it...

I urge you to look at how the insert projection on the holder tab now has the tool at .75 projection and not the same .500 value that is shown to the holder block size

I used the stock radio box to allow it to use the stock boundary and then had to the set the Lead In/Lead out directions..

I am only guessing that this is what you were trying to get as that tool & insert combo won't work any other way

JP_LATHE PART.mcam

[Shoggoth_2150]

4 minutes ago, JParis said:

There was so much wrong with that I am not even sure if I am representing your cut as you wish it...

I urge you to look at how the insert projection on the holder tab now has the tool at .75 projection and not the same .500 value that is shown to the holder block size

I used the stock radio box to allow it to use the stock boundary and then had to the set the Lead In/Lead out directions..

I am only guessing that this is what you were trying to get

JP_LATHE PART.mcam

Yeah, that's what I'm after. Not going to be the tool I use, but I guess as long as the insert is the right way the tool doesn't matter much. It's what I want to do, but no understanding of how you got there. Can you change the insert orientation on any of the bars that are in the MC library, or do I have to hunt the internet and download a Face Grooving Boring bar w/ insert? As I said, I tried to make one but it has the orientation all wrong. I worry the code will be all messed up if I don't have a tool that's at least close to what I'll be using.

[JParis]

10 minutes ago, Shoggoth_2150 said:

Yeah, that's what I'm after. Not going to be the tool I use, but I guess as long as the insert is the right way the tool doesn't matter much. It's what I want to do, but no understanding of how you got there. Can you change the insert orientation on any of the bars that are in the MC library, or do I have to hunt the internet and download a Face Grooving Boring bar w/ insert? As I said, I tried to make one but it has the orientation all wrong. I worry the code will be all messed up if I don't have a tool that's at least close to what I'll be using.

Most times I will pull a holder out of the library that matches the orientation that I need...then add an insert that fits the parameters...from that point, using the setup tab within those tool setting you can change the orientation the rotation and which turret, if you have multiples....you also set spindle directions..

One BIG thing to pay attention to here is the color of the insert, when drawing it on the screen....if the insert is yellow, it is facing up towards the operation, if it's brownish in color it is facing away...so much rides on which way the insert faces as it will also determine if you need a left hand or right hand holder, which could send you back to the library....

 

BTW, once you  have a tool setup the way it needs to be on your machine, save it to a library so you don't have to define that style of tool again 

[CNCZACK]

Not sure if this is what you are after. I changed the tool orientation and changed a few things. Not sure if you will be able to open it since its a 2021 file

 

 

LATHE PART.mcam

[crazy^millman]

I took the standard tool out of the Mastercam lathe tool library and change the parameters to do it using a Right Hand Facing tool. I then took that saved to a level and created a boring bar style face grooving tool Thin-Bit is my go to on things like this. Just helped a customer last week on a project using their tools that no one had off the shelf expect them. 

I would take the time to model that tool as a solid and make it a 3D tool, but since you don't use it enough to use it correctly no point it helping you past what I just did. 

Lathe Tool Example

 

[Shoggoth_2150]

I guess a big part of my problem is this warning. Pops up every time I try to change something on whatever tool I select. Won't let me rotate the angle for plunging, etc. Anybody know what it's all about? Stays default and ignores any changes I try to make.

[JParis]

Any chance your IT Dept has the Public account locked down?

If it is, it needs rear/write access

Try navigating to it in the folder, right click on it see if it's set to "Read Only"

[crazy^millman]

1 minute ago, Shoggoth_2150 said:

I guess a big part of my problem is this warning. Pops up every time I try to change something on whatever tool I select. Won't let me rotate the angle for plunging, etc. Anybody know what it's all about? Stays default and ignores any changes I try to make.

If the above is the issue then he is correct need that read write access. IF not are your users files on the network or are they on your local computer? I have seen odd issues with Network users files verse on the local system. Put a copy in that folder on your local computer and see fi they resolves it for you. 

[Guest]

Fyi you don't need to have your user data stored there, under configuration->files change the path to a folder called shared Mastercam 2020 on your desktop instead.

I keep both my mastercam and shared mastercam folders on my desktop and I have a zipped copy of each  as backup.

[Shoggoth_2150]

So I'm trying real hard to wrap my head around Lathe Tools in Mastercam, with no luck. Here's a file. I copied unit 5, made a unit 6 and tried creating a tool with a .075 width for the 4th pocket. Works just fine in unit 5 (but the blade is too wide), can't get it to do a thing in unit 6 with the tool I made. Seems like it's set up right, and it draws fine. If anyone can point out what I did wrong, or didn't do at all, I'd love some pointers. Have I said how much I hate Mastercam Lathe?

LATHE PART.mcam

[JoshC]

if you hate Mastercam lathe then its likely just a lack of training on your end, I would encourage you to check out the Free online lathe courses being offered here https://signup.mastercam.com/free-mastercam-training

Once you sign up you can login and view the lathe training courses here https://university.mastercam.com/

and a step up from that would be a lathe course at a local mastercam reseller. 

I hope this helps.

[Shoggoth_2150]

16 minutes ago, JoshC said:

if you hate Mastercam lathe then its likely just a lack of training on your end, I would encourage you to check out the Free online lathe courses being offered here https://signup.mastercam.com/free-mastercam-training

Once you sign up you can login and view the lathe training courses here https://university.mastercam.com/

and a step up from that would be a lathe course at a local mastercam reseller. 

I hope this helps.

I've done years worth of training on it. Every level in college and every course available through the sites. The problem is, it just stinks. I've been cutting metal for 25 years, and anywhere I've worked, MC Lathe is an absolute last resort. Probably use it only once or twice a year. Compared to MAZATROL it's like rocket science. So when I absolutely am forced to use it, I either remember nothing, or it's been changed for a new version. I can see benefits for long term production, but in a Job Shop where you just need to kick out a few parts, it's really useless. Spend 5 times as long programming as cutting. Just my time tested opinion of it. But you are correct, I don't know nearly as much as I should, since I avoid it like the plague.

[gcode]

22 minutes ago, Shoggoth_2150 said:

I've done years worth of training on it. Every level in college and every course available through the sites. The problem is, it just stinks. I've been cutting metal for 25 years, and anywhere I've worked, MC Lathe is an absolute last resort. Probably use it only once or twice a year. Compared to MAZATROL it's like rocket science. So when I absolutely am forced to use it, I either remember nothing, or it's been changed for a new version. I can see benefits for long term production, but in a Job Shop where you just need to kick out a few parts, it's really useless. Spend 5 times as long programming as cutting. Just my time tested opinion of it. But you are correct, I don't know nearly as much as I should, since I avoid it like the plague.

I could not disagree more strongly.

I've been job shopping and contract programming with Mastercam Lathe since 1998.

I use it for 2X lathes, VTL's, VTLs with C axis, CY horizontals, 5X verticals and 5x horizontal mill turns.

You are entitled to your opinion though.

Edit

Both John and Ron are correct

If your IT Department has your Public folders locked down you will pound your head against a wall till the end of time

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, gcode said:

I could not disagree more strongly.

I've been job shopping and contract programming with Mastercam Lathe since 1998.

I use it for 2X lathes, VTL's, VTLs with C axis, CY horizontals, 5X verticals and 5x horizontal mill turns.

You are entitled to your opinion though.

Lot's of people get frustrated by Mastercam, it can be hard to learn, I thought lathe was easy for the most part, maybe not the stuff you do g...

If I had a lathe license I would help but I don't.

Seems like a fun topic, I hope someone can help you out.

[crazy^millman]

1 hour ago, Shoggoth_2150 said:

So I'm trying real hard to wrap my head around Lathe Tools in Mastercam, with no luck. Here's a file. I copied unit 5, made a unit 6 and tried creating a tool with a .075 width for the 4th pocket. Works just fine in unit 5 (but the blade is too wide), can't get it to do a thing in unit 6 with the tool I made. Seems like it's set up right, and it draws fine. If anyone can point out what I did wrong, or didn't do at all, I'd love some pointers. Have I said how much I hate Mastercam Lathe?

LATHE PART.mcam

Go in the lathe tool manager and copy the tool that is working and make it a new number tool. Then change that insert to the correct width. Now use that tool in the operation and regenerate and done. Your letting your anger and frustration get the best of you. Slow down and keep the process simple.

Here is the file fixed an changed. I copied the tool like I said and made it the .078 Width and then selected the overlap manually and call it a day. Have a good night.

Lathe Tool 2

[JoshC]

Great solution crazy^millman, I agree after looking at his file that the the way that lathe tool is defined is likely causing his frustrations, one of the things I notices is plunge angle was set to 180 degrees instead of using the reverse tool check box. 

Shaggoth I can understand the frustrations because if your lathe tools are not properly defined you will be in a constant fight with the software, setting up tools properly in lathe is very important for making the toolpaths work properly, with mill tools there is fewer things to concern ourselves with compared to defining lathe tools.

one thing to be aware of is when you need to flip a tool over under Tool setup, use the reverse tool button instead of changing the plunge angle to 180, that was likely one of the culprits causing you trouble with that toolpath. Also on a side note, the default insert colors for lathe inserts are Orange and Yellow, Orange means the insert needs to be Facing downward when setup on the machine where Yellow means the insert needs to be setup on the machine Facing up. If you ever find that you cant get the correct spindle direction for a lathe tool without the direction of the tool being altered then that just means you need to select the opposite hand holder and re-visit the setup tool page, just something to be aware of because you may run into that or may already have, those colors can of course be changed in the config but yellow/orange for up/down are the defaults. I hope this helps

[crazy^millman]

8 minutes ago, JoshC said:

Great solution crazy^millman, I agree after looking at his file that the the way that lathe tool is defined is likely causing his frustrations, one of the things I notices is plunge angle was set to 180 degrees instead of using the reverse tool check box. 

Shaggoth I can understand the frustrations because if your lathe tools are not properly defined you will be in a constant fight with the software, setting up tools properly in lathe is very important for making the toolpaths work properly, with mill tools there is fewer things to concern ourselves with compared to defining lathe tools.

one thing to be aware of is when you need to flip a tool over under Tool setup, use the reverse tool button instead of changing the plunge angle to 180, that was likely one of the culprits causing you trouble with that toolpath. Also on a side note, the default insert colors for lathe inserts are Orange and Yellow, Orange means the insert needs to be Facing downward when setup on the machine where Yellow means the insert needs to be setup on the machine Facing up. If you ever find that you cant get the correct spindle direction for a lathe tool without the direction of the tool being altered then that just means you need to select the opposite hand holder and re-visit the setup tool page, just something to be aware of because you may run into that or may already have, those colors can of course be changed in the config but yellow/orange for up/down are the defaults. I hope this helps

Josh, I have been programming in Lathe for well over 15 years and I have programmed Intergrex well before we had MT, Twin turrets with Tailstocks and Sub Spindle, Triple Turrets with Sub Spindles, VTLs with and without live tooling, and currently programming a DMU 80 DuoBlock Vertical Mill Turn with a Nutating head. If I went only to anything once or twice a year I am going to suck at it plain and simple, but to think the software sucks because I don't put the effort into it is just insane. He needed help so I helped him that is what I do, but to think it sucks because you haven't put in the effort to be better with it is just wrong plain and simple.

[Rocketmachinist]

I think Mastercam Lathe is amazing. If you want to see terrible lathe then give Surfcam Traditional a shot.

[Shoggoth_2150]

Oh I'm not the first person to vent on here. I find MAZAtrol so simple and intuitive. The fact that there are about 10 times more fields to fill out in Lathe than the Mill boggles my mind. Everything I've done as far as classes and education have always been very focused on geometry creation and toolpaths. Never have the nuts and bolts of the program been addressed. Material Library, Tool library, Altering tools and changing Control and Machine definitions; these things are all a lot harder to find info on, or people that can explain well. I do openly admit my bias, being in a job shop. If I was back in aerospace doing long run jobs, I could see the benefits. Easy to swap in new tools and make alterations to paths for efficiency. But for MY needs, it's not the best option. Still want to get a handle on the things that trouble me though, so thanks for the tips. Much appreciated.

[Shoggoth_2150]

15 hours ago, gcode said:

Both John and Ron are correct

If your IT Department has your Public folders locked down you will pound your head against a wall till the end of time

Yeah. It's frustrating to have the computer lock up for a minute every time you do something, only to end up with an error warning and no explanation of what the problem is. I'm no IT guy. Having it looked at today.

[#Rekd™]

To make use of the sample files given here open them, then open the Lathe Tool Manager. Then you can just click on the tools created and drag them into your active library.