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Face "V" groove on mill


CNCZACK
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Ive got this unique groove on this part and im not exactly sure where to begin. We do have some smaller endmills that I can try to get into it but tooling is the smaller issue here. I know i can use flowline to get it but I only have access to one drive face when using this toolpath.  not sure if i should just flowline multiple times or if there is a better way to try and achieve this "V' shaped groove. There are two on this part but I figured if i could knock out the smaller more difficult one, then the larger more open one would be easier and also the lathe might be a better option for that one. 

PUMP GROOVE.mcam

PUMP GROOVE INFO.PNG

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12 minutes ago, CNCZACK said:

Ive got this unique groove on this part and im not exactly sure where to begin. We do have some smaller endmills that I can try to get into it but tooling is the smaller issue here. I know i can use flowline to get it but I only have access to one drive face when using this toolpath.  not sure if i should just flowline multiple times or if there is a better way to try and achieve this "V' shaped groove. There are two on this part but I figured if i could knock out the smaller more difficult one, then the larger more open one would be easier and also the lathe might be a better option for that one. 

PUMP GROOVE.mcam

PUMP GROOVE INFO.PNG

One surface flowline would require two operations or a joined surface, the Tapered walls option on the contour operation would let you cut an angle on two faces in one operation.

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6 minutes ago, JParis said:

I would rough that out with a smaller tool and use a tapermill to finish the walls

Path of least resistance...

As I used to tell a customer, don't be fancy when you don't have to be...

Its less of being fancy and more of using what ive got with this one lol. ive got all sizes of smaller endmills, nothing tapered besides a drill mill lol 

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2 minutes ago, CNCZACK said:

I did not know a contour toolpath could even be used like this. NICE, extremely helpful! 

Here is another approach that could also be used for radii/complex shapes

 

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1 hour ago, CNCZACK said:

Its less of being fancy and more of using what ive got with this one lol. ive got all sizes of smaller endmills, nothing tapered besides a drill mill lol 

I understand that some shops have a "don't buy anything" mentality, but I believe that is only realistic and relevant when you have tools stocked which can actually do the job.

If you've got some small Bull endmills with a Corner Radius, then sure, you could surface mill this operation. But it will require a lot of passes to get a decent surface finish. Is that some sort of 'sealing groove', where they are putting an O-Ring in there, or another type of mechanical seal?

https://www.harveytool.com/

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40 minutes ago, ChrisVermaak said:

Straight groove? Just tilt the vice 23 degrees each direction? Sound so stupid but I could make a groove like that on an normal 3 axis mill. And sure if I had a 4th axis then just tilt the axis and mill straight.

It's a circular groove pattern, the sectional is misleading you.

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1 hour ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

I understand that some shops have a "don't buy anything" mentality, but I believe that is only realistic and relevant when you have tools stocked which can actually do the job.

One of the biggest reasons I don't miss being in a "job shop"

:cheers:

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2 hours ago, JParis said:

I would rough that out with a smaller tool and use a tapermill to finish the walls

Path of least resistance...

As I used to tell a customer, don't be fancy when you don't have to be...

A 2d Contour with a taper angle is hardly fancy..

If the part is a one off, it's hardly worth it to buy a custom tool.

 

I've seen extreme examples of shops having too many custom tools and not enough, I could tell you which is more tedious and less profitable.

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5 minutes ago, Thee Byte™ said:

A 2d Contour with a taper angle is hardly fancy..

If the part is a one off, it's hardly worth it to buy a custom tool.

 

I've seen extreme examples of shops having too many custom tools and not enough, I could tell you which is more tedious and less profitable.

When you work in a high production environment, a couple seconds can cost you thousands $$$$ over the life of a part.... 

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We do hundreds of grooves like this a month, from Ø3 to Ø24 in medium carbon steel forgings

They used to use custom tools to rough and finish, but spent a fortune on custom ground tools and down time cause they burned up all the custom tools

Now I rough them like stair steps with decreasingly smaller off the shelf bull endmills , then a semifinish and finish pass with a custom tool 

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2 hours ago, JParis said:

One of the biggest reasons I don't miss being in a "job shop"

:cheers:

Having previously worked in a shop like that, which when i first started there bought a 300k (in year 1999) Hitachi twin pallet hori but couldn't afford more than 10 toolholders and only had 2 bare pallets...i vowed when i built my shop have value for money machines and then i could throw 200k at tooling.

It is false economy and stupidity to not have tools for the job.

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21 minutes ago, JParis said:

An old boss of mine would have called that "Lean Manufacturing" and I only wish I was kidding

"Lean Manufacturing", "One Part Flow" these terms get tossed around a lot.

I don't believe in one size fits all approaches for manufacturing, you have to crunch the numbers  and see what's working.

I had to sit through some business "expert" last year tell us how it's more efficient to machine one part at a time instead of large batches.

It was for white belt training.

Meanwhile we are in the middle of a huge project to save big $$$ by doing the opposite for a black belt project, go figure...

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42 minutes ago, Thee Byte™ said:

I had to sit through some business "expert" last year tell us how it's more efficient to machine one part at a time instead of large batches.

Usually not the case as you are aware.  But this concept certainly get lost on some folks.  The key to the "one part at a time" methodology is that you finish parts frequently....  You end up making parts that can be turned into billable sales instead of a pile of scrap sitting around gathering dust as in-process whip with potential defects yet to be found in them.  Batches within reason are perfectly fine within most if not any properly implemented lean program.

Ohhhh, lean manufacturinging...   Cell methodology and the likes are great if all you make is one part or a family of parts.  Many times have I heard of shops going under when they adopted the cell philosophy to the nth degree because some lean consultant told them it would be better.

Lean is not one size fits all.  It must be tailored to each and every users unique and individual needs.  (speaking about a shop as the user here not individual people)

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20 hours ago, CNCZACK said:

I did not know a contour toolpath could even be used like this. NICE, extremely helpful! 

You might also want to look into curve slice, which can be more useful than project.

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On 12/28/2020 at 7:11 AM, Thee Byte™ said:

Here is another approach that could also be used for radii/complex shapes

 

Byte, This is kinda like doing a 2d sweep manually. Have you ever tried 2d sweep? All you need is across contour and along contour. It's old school but it gives good clean code and is pretty simple to program.

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12 minutes ago, Elmer Fudd said:

Byte, This is kinda like doing a 2d sweep manually. Have you ever tried 2d sweep? All you need is across contour and along contour. It's old school but it gives good clean code and is pretty simple to program.

I've used it, but my user license is mill level one, it only has contour, pocket, drill,advanced drill, slotmill, point toopath, manual entry and area milling.

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