Circle Mill doesn't recognize stock.

[JB7280]

I read a thread in here, with a number of guys who I consider to be pretty smart, saying they choose circle mill, 9 time out of 10 for milling...well....a circle.  However, I'm trying to use it now to mill some counterbores, and the holes are already drilled.  When I choose stock, it isn't recognizing the already drilled hole, and it is just starting from center.  In addition to this, the outward spiral move shows as a transition move when I turn on Advanced Toolpath Display.  Is circle mill not a stock aware toolpath?

 

Unfortunately I can't upload a file for this one.

 

While I'm here, what the heck does "diameter (for simulation) do???

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, JB7280 said:

Is circle mill not a stock aware toolpath?

No, it is not stock aware.

The primitives like pocket have a remachining functionality that can use the drilling operations nci to determine the stock remaining.

Simple easy to use.

[JParis]

Make sure Start at Center is unchecked in that type of use

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, JParis said:

Make sure Start at Center is unchecked in that type of use

Ya and end at center too!

Cuz u know..

That was the last time I used circlemill.

 

[Colin Gilchrist]

2 hours ago, JB7280 said:

I read a thread in here, with a number of guys who I consider to be pretty smart, saying they choose circle mill, 9 time out of 10 for milling...well....a circle.  However, I'm trying to use it now to mill some counterbores, and the holes are already drilled.  When I choose stock, it isn't recognizing the already drilled hole, and it is just starting from center.  In addition to this, the outward spiral move shows as a transition move when I turn on Advanced Toolpath Display.  Is circle mill not a stock aware toolpath?

 

Unfortunately I can't upload a file for this one.

 

While I'm here, what the heck does "diameter (for simulation) do???

2D Dynamic (HST), and be done with it.

Chain outer circle as Machining boundary. 

Set to "inside".

Add an 'air chain', as a circle, at the drilled hole diameter. 

Set entry option to "plunge only", unless you want a helical or ramp entry. Since they added Air Chains, this now has some amazing flexibility on where you can tell the tool to cut and enter from. 

I typically use Circle Mill myself, when cutting the full circle. I like that there are 'rough', 'semi-finish', and 'finishing' options.

The benefits of 2D Dynamic, are the tools for defining boundaries or regions of stock.

Technically, you can do a similar thing in 3D with Opti-Rest, by adding stock to the Operation, but the 2D option is just so quick! Chain two arcs, although with 2 different selections, and the algorithm instantly knows where to cut, and what is air.

I typically use the 2D Dynamic to rough, and then follow up with a 2D Contour for finishing with Wear Comp. Sure it is 2 Ops, which sucks, but you get ultimate control.

[JParis]

8 minutes ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

2D HST, and be done with it.

Chain outer circle as Machining boundary. 

Set to "inside".

Add an 'air chain', as a circle, at the drilled hole diameter. 

Set entry option to "plunge only", unless you want a helical or ramp entry. Since they added Air Chains, this now has some amazing flexibility on where you can tell the tool to cut and enter from. 

No comp though to control size

[Colin Gilchrist]

Just now, JParis said:

No comp though to control size

Yes, which is why I typically use Circle Mill, and eat the extra few seconds of air cutting in the center, or use a Helical entry with a steep helix angle, without 'start at center' selected.

There have been issues in previous releases, where some combination of Semi-Finish, Finish and Spring passes, would create an invalid arc warning. But I don't remember seeing it recently. 

[JB7280]

12 hours ago, Thee Byte™ said:

No, it is not stock aware.

The primitives like pocket have a remachining functionality that can use the drilling operations nci to determine the stock remaining.

Simple easy to use.

So what is the function of the "stock" tab inside of the circle mill toolpath?

 

11 hours ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

2D Dynamic (HST), and be done with it.

Chain outer circle as Machining boundary. 

Set to "inside".

Add an 'air chain', as a circle, at the drilled hole diameter. 

Set entry option to "plunge only", unless you want a helical or ramp entry. Since they added Air Chains, this now has some amazing flexibility on where you can tell the tool to cut and enter from. 

I typically use Circle Mill myself, when cutting the full circle. I like that there are 'rough', 'semi-finish', and 'finishing' options.

The benefits of 2D Dynamic, are the tools for defining boundaries or regions of stock.

Technically, you can do a similar thing in 3D with Opti-Rest, by adding stock to the Operation, but the 2D option is just so quick! Chain two arcs, although with 2 different selections, and the algorithm instantly knows where to cut, and what is air.

I typically use the 2D Dynamic to rough, and then follow up with a 2D Contour for finishing with Wear Comp. Sure it is 2 Ops, which sucks, but you get ultimate control.

Generally, I use 2D Dynamic, as you said, and then a contour for finish.  This is a production part, in a stubborn material, so I plan to use a seperate tool to finish with, so the rough, semi-finish, finish won't help me much in this case.  I really just wanted to try Circle Mill to put a new tool in my toolbox, as I saw a number of respected guys on here say they use it more often than not.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, JB7280 said:

So what is the function of the "stock" tab inside of the circle mill toolpath?

 

Generally, I use 2D Dynamic, as you said, and then a contour for finish.  This is a production part, in a stubborn material, so I plan to use a seperate tool to finish with, so the rough, semi-finish, finish won't help me much in this case.  I really just wanted to try Circle Mill to put a new tool in my toolbox, as I saw a number of respected guys on here say they use it more often than not.

You should read the Mastercam Help file, it's very informative.

File -> Help -> Contents

Stock

Use this page to trim your toolpath based on a stock model. This reduces the amount of time the tool is not in contact with the material.

Which toolpaths does this page apply to? 

This page applies to the following multiaxis toolpaths:

• Swarf
• Curve
• Flow
• Multisurface
• Port

It also applies to the following hole-making toolpaths:

• Thread Mill
• Drill
• Circle Mill
• Helix Bore
• Advanced Drill
• Chamfer Drill

[JB7280]

10 minutes ago, Thee Byte™ said:

You should read the Mastercam Help file, it's very informative.

File -> Help -> Contents

Stock

Use this page to trim your toolpath based on a stock model. This reduces the amount of time the tool is not in contact with the material.

Which toolpaths does this page apply to? 

This page applies to the following multiaxis toolpaths:

• Swarf
• Curve
• Flow
• Multisurface
• Port

It also applies to the following hole-making toolpaths:

• Thread Mill
• Drill
• Circle Mill
• Helix Bore
• Advanced Drill
• Chamfer Drill

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're getting at.  According to your previous post earlier in the thread, you said that Circle Mill is not stock aware.  But according to the help file, it seems to in fact be stock aware.  Which was kind of the reason for my post.  Mastercam claims it's stock aware, but yet it doesn't actually appear to be.  I mean no disrespect.  It appears that I'm missing something somewhere.

 

**Edit** I now see where "Feed Position" refers to the TOP of the stock.  So is it only stock aware in reference to depth?

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, JB7280 said:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're getting at.  According to your previous post earlier in the thread, you said that Circle Mill is not stock aware.  But according to the help file, it seems to in fact be stock aware.  Which was kind of the reason for my post.  Mastercam claims it's stock aware, but yet it doesn't actually appear to be.  I mean no disrespect.  It appears that I'm missing something somewhere.

The documentation appears to say there is a way, maybe someone more knowledgable ca weigh in.

[JB7280]

Just now, Thee Byte™ said:

The documentation appears to say there is a way, maybe someone more knowledgable ca weigh in.

From playing around a little bit, it appears that it only applies to the depth.  Which is weird, lol, but it is what it is.  There are other ways.

[gcode]

Check out the Stock page of a drill or circle mill toolpath 

your options are

Use stock defintion for

Feed Position

Depth

Both

These tool paths only respect stock for these Z axis settings

 

 

[Leon82]

You can use dynamic with air region. It may have a check box for a finish pass.

My smart a## answer would be use a bigger tool 

[JB7280]

6 hours ago, gcode said:

Check out the Stock page of a drill or circle mill toolpath 

your options are

Use stock defintion for

Feed Position

Depth

Both

These tool paths only respect stock for these Z axis settings

 

 

Yea, it seems I misinterpreted what they meant by "feed"  I'll stick to my dynamic rough, contour finish method.  Thanks!

[AMCNitro]

I prefer contour/ramp.

[JB7280]

12 hours ago, AMCNitro said:

I prefer contour/ramp.

This is a stubborn material, and maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like the tools would handle the load in a radial direction much better than ramping down into the counterbore.

[neurosis]

14 hours ago, JB7280 said:

This is a stubborn material, and maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like the tools would handle the load in a radial direction much better than ramping down into the counterbore.

What kind of material is it?

[Guest]

23 hours ago, JB7280 said:

This is a stubborn material, and maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like the tools would handle the load in a radial direction much better than ramping down into the counterbore.

That could be the better solution, sometimes Ramp would be a better option if it let you use a larger tool.

For harder Metals in a rigid setup I would usually do dynamic milling.

[JParis]

If I need some dynamic style motion to remove stock, I will still use Circle with this enabled

[JB7280]

10 hours ago, Neurosis said:

What kind of material is it?

Carpenter 465.  The only feedback I've been able to get on the material is "good luck".  Sounds promising.

[neurosis]

1 hour ago, JB7280 said:

Carpenter 465.  The only feedback I've been able to get on the material is "good luck".  Sounds promising.

I asked because it's important when people are recommending ramping in to material.   If the xxxx work hardens easily, you could end up with a ball of lava on the end of your end mill. 

 

[crazy^millman]

1 hour ago, Neurosis said:

I asked because it's important when people are recommending ramping in to material.   If the xxxx work hardens easily, you could end up with a ball of lava on the end of your end mill. 

 

Never had that happen.

Okay only about 20 or 30 times over the years.

[Leon82]

When we were drilling the stuff we used Cobalt drills. It started a squeal so the co-worker hit the reset button. Being a matsuura the spindle just keeps running and the drill welded itself inside the hole

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Leon82 said:

When we were drilling the stuff we used Cobalt drills. It started a squeal so the co-worker hit the reset button. Being a matsuura the spindle just keeps running and the drill welded itself inside the hole

When I was about 20, I was running two OKUMA's 20 feet apart, a 2" U-Drill was coming down to drill a deep hole, I was at the second machine and I looked over and the thru coolant didn't turn on 1 inch above the part.

I ran over..

By the time I stopped it the part and the drill were fused together, took me half an hour to get the tool out..