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Verify movement


Smit
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36 minutes ago, Smit said:

Is there a way to change the rapid movement in verify from a dog leg to a straight linear movement?

I had a gouge happen yesterday that didn't show up in verify. :(

Thanks!

You can set this on the Linear page of the Machine Defintion 

Change "Rapid Motion" to "All axis arrive at destination simultaneously"

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1 hour ago, gcode said:

You can set this on the Linear page of the Machine Defintion 

Change "Rapid Motion" to "All axis arrive at destination simultaneously"

That worked perfectly, thanks.

That is one of those settings I've never really even looked at while setting up the machines.

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14 minutes ago, Neurosis said:

All of our machines dog leg rapid.. I can't tell you how many times verify detecting that saved my xxxx.   :D 

I like to keep chit close and tight some times.   

Crunch. 

All of ours do too except for this newer Haas UMC750.

Yes, crunch. 😬

Actually it wasn't really that bad. It just clipped the part  and didn't even break the tool. There are worse ways to learn for sure.

Both Mastercam and Vericut were set to dog leg so neither caught it but they both do now!

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2 minutes ago, Smit said:

All of ours do too except for this newer Haas UMC750.

Yes, crunch. 😬

Actually it wasn't really that bad. It just clipped the part  and didn't even break the tool. There are worse ways to learn for sure.

Both Mastercam and Vericut were set to dog leg so neither caught it but they both do now!

Back in the earlier days, I learned to set the SHS tool paths to min clear at a feed so I could see exactly where the tools were going. 

More recently I was programming a large part and didn't think that I needed to do that.   I was running it in verify and kept seeing a clipped edge. 

Needless to say, that saved my xxxx on that job.  The material for the part was 6k.

We don't have vericut.  Our boss seems to think that if we need to rely on that then we don't know how to do our job.  :lol:   Stupid bosses.  

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2 hours ago, gcode said:

You can set this on the Linear page of the Machine Defintion 

Change "Rapid Motion" to "All axis arrive at destination simultaneously"

Oh really?

I always just figured it was broken...

Very useful info!

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Keep in mind that even with this control def setting changed so you see dogleg collisions, it might not represent what you see at the machine. We're just going off of some fixed axis acceleration values that will NOT accurately reflect what the acceleration curve looks like on your actual machine for each individual axis.

This can mean a dogleg avoids clipping in Verify by say, 0.010", and doesn't show a gouge, but when you get the program onto the machine and you're loaded down with 300lbs of fixture plate, the X axis maybe gets up to speed a little slower as it performs the rapid, and now that 0.010" miss becomes a 0.100" gouge. 

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17 minutes ago, Chally72 said:

Keep in mind that even with this control def setting changed so you see dogleg collisions, it might not represent what you see at the machine. We're just going off of some fixed axis acceleration values that will NOT accurately reflect what the acceleration curve looks like on your actual machine for each individual axis.

This can mean a dogleg avoids clipping in Verify by say, 0.010", and doesn't show a gouge, but when you get the program onto the machine and you're loaded down with 300lbs of fixture plate, the X axis maybe gets up to speed a little slower as it performs the rapid, and now that 0.010" miss becomes a 0.100" gouge. 

Yes.. Mastercam assumes all three axis have exactly the same accel/decel and rapid feed rate

so you are seeing a perfect world simulation.

In real life, especially will big machines this is never true 

Vericut can accommodate all of this IF you can get the accel/decel numbers from the machine tool builder

and

as Chally72 said, the weight on the table can have big effect .

It don't think even Vericut can allow for this

 

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16 minutes ago, gcode said:

It don't think even Vericut can allow for this

Nope they cannot why we program in certain ways to avoid such issue or keep the move in feed moves to avoid ti all together. Problem is on machine with 3200 imp rapids hard to not just switch to rapid and let it go up verse trying to feed it at only 2000 ipm. Take some of the beasts some shops have that only feed and rapid at 150 ipm max and having to go 30 feet takes a minute or two on large parts. Not something really noticed on fast machines, but on slower machines the breaking up of motion looks sloppy when it is really out of the programmer's control.

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And...... when all fails on a FANUC controlled machine, set the parameter to arrrive simultaneously because dog leg is dog crap;

FANUC 0i, 16i, 18i, 21i, 30i, 31i, and 32i Series controls

#1401.1 = 1 - Positioning is performed with linear interpolation so that the tool moves in a straight line.

 

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On 1/8/2021 at 5:23 PM, cncappsjames said:

And...... when all fails on a FANUC controlled machine, set the parameter to arrrive simultaneously because dog leg is dog crap;

FANUC 0i, 16i, 18i, 21i, 30i, 31i, and 32i Series controls

#1401.1 = 1 - Positioning is performed with linear interpolation so that the tool moves in a straight line.

 

We had a problem with drills and taps "doglegging" into a wall with #1401.1 =1. Fanuc stated that there is still a small amount of doglegging going on and the only way to fix it is to use G1 for every movement. I ended up doing full retracts between the three holes since this was the only part we have had an issue with. I think that part is obsolete now.

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Even with Vericut  it can be a challenge. A local company were the first kids on the block with a Mag 4 high speed cell.

Makino turned up with a pallet of spindle cartridges, it took a fair few weeks and a number of spindles to get it dialed in so they could reliably push the button.

At 30,000 rpm and 1,000+ ipm FEED rates just a glancing contact can be curtains for the spindle.

I think it was about 4 months after they started that one of the supervisors who I worked with in a previous life told me their annualized chip recycling had just gone through seven figures....

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On 1/8/2021 at 11:30 AM, gcode said:

Yes.. Mastercam assumes all three axis have exactly the same accel/decel and rapid feed rate

so you are seeing a perfect world simulation.

In real life, especially will big machines this is never true 

Vericut can accommodate all of this IF you can get the accel/decel numbers from the machine tool builder

and

as Chally72 said, the weight on the table can have big effect .

It don't think even Vericut can allow for this

 

Hi Tom,

If you uncheck the 'rapid rate' checkbox option in the Machine Definition General Settings page, you can then go into the Axis Properties for each individual axis, and set a Rapid Rate for that individual axis. Backplot can then use the different feed values, to change the Dog-Leg motion to more accurately reflect the real world.

This still does not consider Acceleration or Jerk, but you at least get to somewhat visually see the results of different Rapid Rate values. I have one machine where it is a significant difference between the rates. I think X is 1,600 IPM, Y is 1,200 IPM, and Z is only 800 IPM. These differences are shown a bit more accurately in Backplot, when I setup the individual Axis rapid rates.

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2 hours ago, nickbe10 said:

Even with Vericut  it can be a challenge. A local company were the first kids on the block with a Mag 4 high speed cell.

Makino turned up with a pallet of spindle cartridges, it took a fair few weeks and a number of spindles to get it dialed in so they could reliably push the button.

At 30,000 rpm and 1,000+ ipm FEED rates just a glancing contact can be curtains for the spindle.

I think it was about 4 months after they started that one of the supervisors who I worked with in a previous life told me their annualized chip recycling had just gone through seven figures....

We had to help CG Tech with several different customers regarding this subject. We had one project where we were feeding at 1200 ipm at 24,000 rpms removing 180 cubic inches a minute. We only had 3 issues with an 800 hour run time and 2 of them were Dog Legs. One was a head index being missed and were it not for a world class machinist not trusting me, Mastercam and Vericut it would have been a ruined part, spindle and badly crashed machined. Even at 99.99% accuracy with 40 million lines of code that is still a margin of 4000 lines of code that could have an error. We proved the process down to 99.99997% Error probability so I called that a win on the first go around. After that it was 100% error free from a NC code stand point. They had the power go out on the 4th part and a tool go through a parachute area so it got used for the Destructive test that needed to be preformed. :construction:

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