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5th axis tilt and linear positioning in same line


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Hello-

It's my first time posting! This forum has been such a huge help in the past and I'm hoping it can continue. I want my 5ax machines to move in both "X" / "Y" and "B" / "C" at the same line, once at the clearance plane, then got to the retract/feed plane. I have had some situations that I believe it would be a safer move then moving the "B" / "C" in one line "X" / "Y" in the next line, as it is currently posting out. I frequently tip "B" past 90° and don't always account for how much higher the trunnion can be when you make that type of rotational move, but when the tool follows the part it wont sit over the body of the trunnion. I'm posting using the Haas and Fanuc generic posts.

Thanks - SFG

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You will have to get a little specific with your questions on how to make the changes you want to make, but to say the least, what you want to do isn't that difficult, but you will need to be very careful when you do it as you may end up with unexpected behavior at certain null toolchange sitatuions.  There might be swtiches in the post to get it to this already built in.  Research that possibility first then report back.  It will be under a variable that reads something like safe index, but can't remember exactly if that was the one that controls that behavior.

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I'd suggest having G43.4 active for your positioning/transition moves.  This will give you that kind of motion.

Please note, it "can" be dangerous in certain sometimes unpredictable situations like if the positioning move passes through 0,0,0. At that point the next move has an infinite number of solutions and will produce aggressive moves and could result in a collision. 

 

HTH

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I hyad an issue with this on a machine with an A Axis. If the machine was at home, rear right corner of machine, interesting things would happen when G43.4 was turned on and A and C would move to the start position. X and Y and Z would invariably beeline for the top of the part. (A Axis now at -90) Now, Camplete uses G68.2 for a safe positioning move to get the tool out over the part safely, turns off G68.2 and immediately turns on G43.4 and safely continues the program. This has worked beautifully for me so far.

In addition, I requested the rotary axis start position to be placed before the G68.2 line and the G53.1 line. Redundant but better safe than sorry.

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17 minutes ago, Leon82 said:

With twp if you preposition x and y with the rotary there will be another shift when 68.2 it turned on

This is what I am talking about.

 

T2M06
G91G28Z0.0
(Blade Semi+.003)
S15000M03
G00G90G54B19.5419C-90.188
G68.2 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0 I-0.188 J19.5419 K-90.0
G53.1
X3.6651Y0.5293B19.5419C-90.188
G69
G05.1 Q1 R5
G43.4Z0.2052H2

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Many of the machines have Straight to G43.4 or TRAORI with no issues.

N5 (APPROACH MOVE MIDDLE SECTION START T35)
(GET 5 AXIS HEAD)
G321 A4
(NEXT TOOL =  T35 )
M98 P7003
 (HELICAL - 47465 - END MILL FOR ALUMINUM -  VARIABLE PITCH - 3 FLUTE X 40° HELIX X 1.0000 DIA X 1.2500 LOC X 6.0000 REAC)
N6 G54 G17 G90
N7 M62 M64
N8 G00 C-185.994
N9 A-101.
N10 G01 G94 X2.6251 Y21.8428 S5000 M03 F500.
N11 G43.4 H35 X2.6251 Y21.8428 Z44.8755
N12 M08
N13 Z44.7755 F120.
N14 Z33.6885
N15 (MACHINE ID MIDDLE SECTION #1)
N16 X-2.3114 Y21.8782 Z33.7265 A-97.1 C-180. F200.
N17 X-2.9128 Y27.5704
N18 Y28.1658 Z33.8006
N19 Y28.5627 Z33.85 F120.
;T49    - 1/2 BALL ENDMILL     - D1     - DIA .5"    - CORNER RAD .25

N10 G0 G90 G17 G700 G40 G601 FNORM
N11 HSM(1,0.002000)
N12 TRAFOOF
N13 SUPA G0 Z=0.000 D0
N14 SUPA G0 A=0.000 C=0.000
;FINISH INSIDE CLEVIS  -  SWARF #1 CLEVIS #1
;T49    - 1/2 BALL ENDMILL     - D1     - DIA .5"    - CORNER RAD .25
N15 T49
N16 L6
N17 SUPA G0 Z=0.000 D0
N18 SUPA G0 A=0.000 C=0.000
N19 TRAORI
N20 G0 G54 G90 A38.822 C-6. D1
N21 X-4.6164 Y-48.1053 Z15. S12000 M3
N22 Z8.3963
N23 X-4.5509 Y-47.4819 Z7.6172
N24 G94 G1 X-4.4854 Y-46.8584 Z6.8381 F180.
N25 X-4.4788 Z6.8376
N26 X-4.4629 Y-46.8574 Z6.8372

Really comes down to how the builder implemented all the parameters.

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2 minutes ago, cncappsjames said:

The safest move is pre-position in TWP then engage TCP. That will give you predictable motion at a glance. 

Plusses and minuses to everything.

I have been doing this for as long as I can remember. But I also have had a dozen people at least ask me why I do this. I should use one or the other, not both. But a lot of people don't understand the intertwined nature of both TWP and TCP. They are one and the same for all intents except one is stationary and the other is dynamic. Also, as someone that does programming on other peoples machines and risking other peoples money, time and effort, I'll gladly take the heat.

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57 minutes ago, cncappsjames said:

The safest move is pre-position in TWP then engage TCP. That will give you predictable motion at a glance. 

On a table/table, yes, definately, and almost regardless of parameters settings...  Now that said, on a Head/Head.  Different ballgame.  I used to very confidently turn on G43.4 on my initial XY approach, then approach in z.  The only caveat was that I had it set in the parameters to activate G43.4 at the end of the move.  So it would go to the right position, but it would be fastest axis path for each axis.  Not interpolating a straight line from A>B whiles moving the rotaries.  

Complicated subject.  As James said, there are Plusses and Minuses to everything.  The key to all of this is to know without a doubt as a programmer what the machine behavior will be between toolpaths, and toolchanges.  As well as in cases where the operator stops, jogs, hits reset, etc. in the middle of a program.

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23 hours ago, cncappsjames said:

The safest move is pre-position in TWP then engage TCP. That will give you predictable motion at a glance. 

Plusses and minuses to everything.

Always, but seeing how you're working in a fixed group of machines what works in that arena is not what the other builders do. I run the gament on machines and controls and with that I have to adapt to each builders method of how they use the Fanuc control to do TCP and DWO. SIEMENS always from my experience goes straight into TRAORI (FANUC G43.4) without ever calling CYCLE800 (G68.2) to position the machine for 5 axis work. No matter the Axis combinations or Kinematic layouts I have seen that has been their method. Okuma, and Mazak do the same thing with their controls and HAAS is following the same direction with G254. I am not saying it is not a safer way I agree it is, but just not what the majority of other builders are requiring or doing with regards to TCP from my experience. We have talked about this machine time over the years and you work with a group that took a direction for the process and it works awesome and like programming for the Matsuura machines every chance I can get, but just not enough of that work to only program for them my friend. 🙃

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Correct @crazy^millman I should preface my statements with "...on a table/table kinematic..." since that is 95% of what I spend my time with and on. There's a few things we could do differently, however, I have SO many 1st time 5-Axis users to work with and a good chunk of my job is teaching our customers reliable methods to accomplish given tasks. If people choose to use 5-Axis linking, I've got a CAMplete NC format that supports that and the standard 5-Axis Matsuura machine control option configuration in the US will do whatever dance anyone cares to do with it. 

As a matter of preference, since I put my hands directly on other people's machines, I choose safety over cool factor or capability. If the customers want the cool factor, I can help with that too. 

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16 hours ago, cncappsjames said:

Correct @crazy^millman I should preface my statements with "...on a table/table kinematic..." since that is 95% of what I spend my time with and on. There's a few things we could do differently, however, I have SO many 1st time 5-Axis users to work with and a good chunk of my job is teaching our customers reliable methods to accomplish given tasks. If people choose to use 5-Axis linking, I've got a CAMplete NC format that supports that and the standard 5-Axis Matsuura machine control option configuration in the US will do whatever dance anyone cares to do with it. 

As a matter of preference, since I put my hands directly on other people's machines, I choose safety over cool factor or capability. If the customers want the cool factor, I can help with that too. 

Excellent points.

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