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5axis router alignment


TOM S
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I have seen millions of videos and ads for Renishaw (et al.) that use software, and probes for calibrating 5 axis machines.  I have only seen this exclusively in the metal working industry.  I have been in the woodworking industry for 20+ years and have never encountered it being used.  Has anyone else seen / used this tech on a CNC router?

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58 minutes ago, MATT Q said:

We run thermwood 5 axis machines and we do the mechanical tram procedure.

We run the same on our SCM.  But pay for a tech to do it.  Had just seen videos about it being automated and simplified in the metal industry and wondered why I haven't seen it in Woodworking

 

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10 minutes ago, TOM S said:

We run the same on our SCM.  But pay for a tech to do it.  Had just seen videos about it being automated and simplified in the metal industry and wondered why I haven't seen it in Woodworking

 

Compare the price of the equipment for the size and accuracy and then you will answer your own question. 5 Axis Routers for a 4' x 4' x 10' machining envelope is around $125k a Metal machine with the same size is about 10 times the cost. You get what you pay for.

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Ron hit the nail on the head. Cost versus Accuracy. The wood industry deals with natural products, that tend to shrink and swell based on moisture content. The machines for cutting wood tend to be built with cheaper components; bearings, servo motors (steppers?), guides, ways, etc.

Also, it is much easier to find "mechanical kinematic center points", on a Gantry Router. Travel is typically easy to get the Spindle Face at Tilt +90 and Tilt-90. I can find the Tilt Center in about 20-30 minutes on a Gantry machine.

Now try finding that same number, on a machine with only +25, -110 of Tilt Travel, on a Trunnion where there is a 20mm offset in X, and a 50mm offset in Z, between the face of the platter, and the tilt axis. I can do this with Axiset or Kinematic Perfect, in about 20-30 minutes. Now, try doing the same calculations manually! Last time, it took me a couple of hours to get the kinematic numbers dialed in. I'm sure some of that was just me being rusty on doing it manually, but it is a whole lot easier when you have 180 degrees of travel on the Tilt Axis, and specifically +90-90 degrees. 

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  • 8 months later...

We have a thermwood c67 twin 12’x5’ table 5axis. We purchased it preowned and have had nothing but trouble with the thermwood control and the siemens kit on it. So decided to have a full fanuc 30i b plus retrofit and as part of this we have had a renishaw tool setter and radio probe installed we opted also for their axiset software which is supposed to be able to check the centres of rotation for the B and C axis and then apply a correction to any offsets in the controller. We are still in the process of completing the retrofit so I won’t have any results for maybe a month. It’s overkill for what we use the machine for but we thought we’d get the best we could afford and renishaw are 5 minutes from my workshop in the uk. 

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5 hours ago, Robocarv said:

We have a thermwood c67 twin 12’x5’ table 5axis. We purchased it preowned and have had nothing but trouble with the thermwood control and the siemens kit on it. So decided to have a full fanuc 30i b plus retrofit and as part of this we have had a renishaw tool setter and radio probe installed we opted also for their axiset software which is supposed to be able to check the centres of rotation for the B and C axis and then apply a correction to any offsets in the controller. We are still in the process of completing the retrofit so I won’t have any results for maybe a month. It’s overkill for what we use the machine for but we thought we’d get the best we could afford and renishaw are 5 minutes from my workshop in the uk. 

Awesome thing you are doing. Please report back results I would be interested in how it turns out.

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On 2/5/2022 at 6:22 AM, Robocarv said:

We have a thermwood c67 twin 12’x5’ table 5axis. We purchased it preowned and have had nothing but trouble with the thermwood control and the siemens kit on it. So decided to have a full fanuc 30i b plus retrofit and as part of this we have had a renishaw tool setter and radio probe installed we opted also for their axiset software which is supposed to be able to check the centres of rotation for the B and C axis and then apply a correction to any offsets in the controller. We are still in the process of completing the retrofit so I won’t have any results for maybe a month. It’s overkill for what we use the machine for but we thought we’d get the best we could afford and renishaw are 5 minutes from my workshop in the uk. 

I am definitely going to follow this thread. We have an Onsrud F148E15 5X router with twin tables & a Fanuc 30i B5 control. We mostly do aircraft honeycomb panel, flat sheet metal & wood parts, but lately we've been using it to do more precise work & have had issues with calibrating the machine.

I'd love to know how this works out for you.

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We are having some delays at the moment because renishaw we’re unable to complete the setup of the axiset system because our machine builder hasn’t setup the machine correctly and has missed setting a number of fanuc parameters with regards to tilted workplanes. 
 

when i have it up and running I’ll post some videos and results. 

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On 2/5/2022 at 5:22 PM, Robocarv said:

We have a thermwood c67 twin 12’x5’ table 5axis. We purchased it preowned and have had nothing but trouble with the thermwood control and the siemens kit on it. So decided to have a full fanuc 30i b plus retrofit and as part of this we have had a renishaw tool setter and radio probe installed we opted also for their axiset software which is supposed to be able to check the centres of rotation for the B and C axis and then apply a correction to any offsets in the controller. We are still in the process of completing the retrofit so I won’t have any results for maybe a month. It’s overkill for what we use the machine for but we thought we’d get the best we could afford and renishaw are 5 minutes from my workshop in the uk. 

Interesting project.  I am sure I have to wait to see how it goes. Thanks.

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  • 2 months later...
On 2/7/2022 at 2:43 PM, Robocarv said:

We are having some delays at the moment because renishaw we’re unable to complete the setup of the axiset system because our machine builder hasn’t setup the machine correctly and has missed setting a number of fanuc parameters with regards to tilted workplanes. 
 

when i have it up and running I’ll post some videos and results. 

Just curious as to how this worked out.

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