UUUUGGHHH! I have to vent!! Mill turn...

[cncappsjames]

A LOT of machine behavior comes down to not only the code running through it, but additionally the parameters that are enabled/disabled. It's up to the AE to know/do this for the customer onsite. The thing about configuration from the factory... they are building machines for the world. How they do things in Vietnam are different than how things are done in Australia, which is different from how they are done in France, which is defferent from Brazil, which is different from Brazil, which is different from shop to shop, etc... as infinitum.

I've had multiple discussions with builders regarding this. Won some. Lost some. The reality is, it comes down to (as @Colin Gilchrist mentioned) the AE charged with commissioning the machines knowing their way around the control enough to ask the customer questions and configure the machine appropriately. In school I was the kid that read the dictionary in class... because I was bored. So, in adulthood, when I started at Mori Seiki in the 90's, the FANUC Parameter manual became my dictionary. As a machinist, I was generally unaware of this side of the machine tool, which, in retrospect, was probably a good thing back then. I would most likely have tinkered with stuff I was not ready/prepared to tinker with which could have ended badly. 

There is a common mis-conception that parameters control "everything". That's simply not true. The parameters do affect a great deal of the machine's behavior but not everything. FANUC being FANUC gives the builders a great deal of latitude in this much to the ire of end users but I digress. Often times builders control certain behavior through the use of the Timers, Keep Relays and Data Bits, or a combination of all three. Then there's the ladder that kind of ties it all together. The ladder is almost like the Windows Registry. But, each builder is different. Toyoda uses Data Bits and timers almost exclusively. Matsuura uses a combination as do most builders.

JM2CFWIW

[Thad]

21 hours ago, Newbeeee™ said:

Metric. Inch. I dunno the prob. It's just a 24.5 conversion....

24.5? 

[Newbeeee™]

28 minutes ago, Thad said:

24.5? 

[cncappsjames]

35 minutes ago, Newbeeee™ said:

Hate when that happens.

[Bill Craven]

12 hours ago, cncappsjames said:

In school I was the kid that read the dictionary in class... because I was bored. So, in adulthood, when I started at Mori Seiki in the 90's, the FANUC Parameter manual became my dictionary.

I did the same thing. 

When I was repairing CNC machines (which I did for twenty plus years), I attributed much of my success with being able to read (and re-read and re-read until I got it) the parameter manuals and ladder diagrams and other documentation. 

[Newbeeee™]

5 hours ago, Bill Craven said:

I did the same thing. 

When I was repairing CNC machines (which I did for twenty plus years), I attributed much of my success with being able to read (and re-read and re-read until I got it) the parameter manuals and ladder diagrams and other documentation. 

Hahahaha - that's the yellow books for you!

Ffffaaaaarrrrrrr better now compared to the 90s, but read and read and read again until understandy!

[So not a Guru]

3 hours ago, Newbeeee™ said:

Hahahaha - that's the yellow books for you!

Yeah, they are (marginally) better now, but, oh my God, I used to wonder what hybrid language they were written in; Japanenglish? Englishese? Eastern Confusionish?

[CADCAM3D5AXIS]

4 hours ago, Newbeeee™ said:

Hahahaha - that's the yellow books for you!

Ffffaaaaarrrrrrr better now compared to the 90s, but read and read and read again until understandy!

^^^^ Yes to That It was always a fun time trying the unscramble the tech info they were trying to put into print  and it did take some time since you would never be 100 % sure that what you were reading is what you thought they were trying to say.

 

And I liked the little worker pictures that they added in to try and show you what going on  and add that to the translation issues it was like trying to unscramble eggs and put them back in the shell with Pics ?

But they have come a LONG WAY from that time !

 

[Bill Craven]

7 hours ago, Newbeeee™ said:

Ffffaaaaarrrrrrr better now compared to the 90s, but read and read and read again until understandy!

90s?  "Paradise"  The manuals from the eighties were much more difficult.  (I feel a oneupmanship thing coming on...)

One time when I was re-reading one of the manuals -I think it was for a Fanuc 3 control- I remember reading "lelay"  instead of relay.  I am not joking.

I think that part of the confusion with the translations was that the translators were not engineers or familiar with the product and were just foreign language translators.

 

Speaking of "Oneupmanship":

 

[T_MALENA]

Bob W....not to be a smart guy...but I'm posting code that runs without changes...its not what I end up as a production program...but thats due to my choice.  Its not crashing and for a small piece run I dont make changes to the posted code.

Its from fastech / postability(i think I read their name in the post)  Not sure who did what...between Fastech/DMG Mori etc. but it works.  NTX3000's

[gcode]

2 minutes ago, T_MALENA said:

Bob W....not to be a smart guy...but I'm posting code that runs without changes...its not what I end up as a production program...but thats due to my choice.  Its not crashing and for a small piece run I dont make changes to the posted code.

Its from fastech / postability(i think I read their name in the post)  Not sure who did what...between Fastech/DMG Mori etc. but it works.  NTX3000's

I'm running a Postability post for our NT6600 and get error free code if I do my part correctly.

Bob is running the Mastercam Mill/Turn module which is a whole different animal.

Due to it's baked in Machine Sim, the Mill/Turn module should be the better solution  IF  the posting issues get ironed out.

[gcode]

1 hour ago, Bill Craven said:

One time when I was re-reading one of the manuals -I think it was for a Fanuc 3 control- I remember reading "lelay"  instead of relay. 

I had an LOL moment while reading the service manual for a Victor 1640 engine lathe I used to own,

The spindle brake was a leather lined belt that tightened on a drum when you stepped on the brake pedal

It was slipping and the manual told me to inspect the "broke band"... 

[jean]

On 6/18/2021 at 11:48 AM, Bob W. said:

I am so sick and tired of Mastercam's mill turn and trying to get my DMG Mori NTX2000 to work right.  There are so many damn hand edits and it is risky (editing mistakes) and time consuming.  These aren't custom features, they are things like unclamping the B-axis for 5-axis machining and getting the G68.1 to post correctly.  Things that EVERY NTX 2000 CAN DO!!!  CNC Software, why the hell doesn't this xxxx work?  You are wasting my time!  The cost of my lost productivity far out paces the cost of your mill turn product.  You owe it to me to fix this crap and deliver a product that works.  I paid for it, now deliver.  If I had access to the post I could fix all these issues in a matter of hours, not months or years.

 

Just begun this job 6/28/2021 and I was hired to program 2 NTX2000's

Bob, I've read this whole thread and I cant begging to understand why I'm having post issues with the NTX2000's that the company bought 1.5 years ago. One in a GEN1 and the other a GEN2.. M codes are not located in the proper locations. so their is severe hand editing that needs to happen. also machine sims tools don't match tools being used pictures attached for reference. I need advise as what to do moving forward. Also have another question regarding setup documentation and the best format to provide good information to the operators when there setting up..

I've programmed Mill-turns before but they where integrex 300Y so I know the required programing but don't have experience with the NTX2000

The simulation interface that its using is new to me also.. I'm used to using Mpostability for machine sim. 

Thanks in advance

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jean said:

Thanks in advance

Looks like you already got the answer with the other post.

You need to work with your reseller, if that is unsuccessful you need to contact CNC in Conn.

You will not be able to "fudge" this with any kind of success, and you will not be getting the best from your system.

[Shiva.aero]

Any update to this post? 

All these problems for NTX 2000 is just because of the Post Or is it due to the MC itself? 

Is it all improved with MC2023? 

[JParis]

27 minutes ago, Shiva.aero said:

Any update to this post? 

All these problems for NTX 2000 is just because of the Post Or is it due to the MC itself? 

Is it all improved with MC2023? 

If it's thre "MT Product", get with your reseller there isn't muich you can do on the post end.....if it's Lathe/Mill combined for a mill turn, get with your post writer...

You have to chase this upstream

[Bob W.]

On 11/16/2022 at 4:34 AM, Shiva.aero said:

Any update to this post? 

All these problems for NTX 2000 is just because of the Post Or is it due to the MC itself? 

Is it all improved with MC2023? 

No update.  I pretty much gave up.  We have a few production parts that run on the machine and we don't really iterate on process improvement like we could/ should.  It is just too much of a pain and I'm tired of fighting the uphill battle.  It never got fixed so we just hand edit the programs if there is a change.  Usually we will isolate the toolpath that changed and cut and paste it into the existing program so there is less to prove out.  It is really pathetic I know.  On the mills we will iterate a program for process improvement every cycle until it is dialed.  We will constantly repost to test new tool technology and offerings, etc...  Not with the Mori, waaay too much work.  Were probably getting 60% of what we could out of that machine and it pretty much boils down to the post issues and drama it causes.

[Newbeeee™]

Holymoly.

So they're still not updating master posts and all the meetings etc were for nothing.

What a shambles 

[crazy^millman]

20 hours ago, Bob W. said:

No update.  I pretty much gave up.  We have a few production parts that run on the machine and we don't really iterate on process improvement like we could/ should.  It is just too much of a pain and I'm tired of fighting the uphill battle.  It never got fixed so we just hand edit the programs if there is a change.  Usually we will isolate the toolpath that changed and cut and paste it into the existing program so there is less to prove out.  It is really pathetic I know.  On the mills we will iterate a program for process improvement every cycle until it is dialed.  We will constantly repost to test new tool technology and offerings, etc...  Not with the Mori, waaay too much work.  Were probably getting 60% of what we could out of that machine and it pretty much boils down to the post issues and drama it causes.

I know a guy who can come in and work with it and help dial it in.

Just saying I would be glad to give it a stab and see if I could help get the issues resolved. I have done this for many companies over the years.

[Dave.Miller]

Bob-

There have been MANY updates to that environment since 2021.  

I don't know your issues specifically, but I know the NTX post does work out of the box (at least currently).

You are welcome to send me a direct email with a ziptogo and I am happy to compare to the output/environment that is the latest released one.  

[email protected]

Thanks!