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NTX2000 DMG Mori or Okuma Multus U3000


jean
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Gentlemen, looking for some feedback. We currently own 2 NTX2000 but they seem not to be as rigid as we thought. From a High-level which machines "mill turns" out here pack a big punch when it comes down to rigidity and performance? we are in the works to buy another NTX2000 but are also thinking of a different manufacturer.

We mainly deal with Cast Iron, Ductile, 100 iron....we cater to different industries.

 

Thanks in advance.

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We have a 2008 model Mori NT6600 

We bought it from a sister company a couple of years ago 

It had less than 200 hours on it and it's huge. I have been disappointed in it so far.

I haven't done  any heavy turning, but I've stalled the mill spindle a couple of times. (Ø2" high feed in 4130 steel)

It has done very well in light turning and milling but I'm gun shy about heavy roughing with it now.

Our Okuma VTM1200 is pretty stout but it's a whole different kind of machine

One thing to keep in mind.

Adding an Okuma mill turn to your stable will cause all sorts of programming and scheduling issues.

You will have to maintain a a program library for two different flavors of mill turn and that can turn into a real PIA 

How are you programming your Mori's,  old school lathe or the new mill turn module?

 

 

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29 minutes ago, gcode said:

We have a 2008 model Mori NT6600 

We bought it from a sister company a couple of years ago 

It had less than 200 hours on it and it's huge. I have been disappointed in it so far.

I haven't done  any heavy turning, but I've stalled the mill spindle a couple of times. (Ø2" high feed in 4130 steel)

It has done very well in light turning and milling but I'm gun shy about heavy roughing with it now.

Our Okuma VTM1200 is pretty stout but it's a whole different kind of machine

One thing to keep in mind.

Adding an Okuma mill turn to your stable will cause all sorts of programming and scheduling issues.

You will have to maintain a a program library for two different flavors of mill turn and that can turn into a real PIA 

How are you programming your Mori's,  old school lathe or the new mill turn module?

 

 

I'm using the Mastercam Mill turn to generate the tool paths and then using Code Expert to generate/establish wait commands and Post. It just seem like the Mori gets stalled with deeper cuts.

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WFL for Rigidity and power is unmatched from what I have heard. I have stalled a Multus with a 2" Highfeed cutter cutting some 13-8 PH. I have stalled just about every Mill/Turn I have programmed with certain cuts. Turning is one thing and milling is another and Horizontal Mill/Turns are not made for heavy roughing operations with milling tools. Time you get out past a certain point you have so much mass working against the spindle to clamp and hold the parts something has to give. I have proven time and time again roughing on HMC or Verticals for parts going to a Horizontal Mill/Turn is the better process. Let them focus on what they are meant to do multi tasking. Now Vertical Mill/Turns just seem to have more power and ability, but Horizontals are just not built the same way and they for all purposes can't be. Verticals don't care about thru the spindle capabilities and that allows more motor can be stuffed under them. Horizontals always have to give up something to allow thru the spindle material just the nature of their design and in doing they loose strength and power capabilities. The other natural thing working again Horizontals is gravity that helps with Vertical machines. Doing production look at the process and develop the correct process to support the manufacturing of the parts. See it to many times we got this machine that is not the right fit for these parts, but it all we have and we are stuck with it. I showed one customer recently how to save 800 days a year on one part by just adjusting the process to manufacture their parts. Can the majority of the material be removed on a different machine and more than one at a time? If so now we get into unattended runtime and profitable processes. Mill/Turns for the most part are one offs per holding and yes we can do more and get a lot done, but if the parts don't fit in the correct bubble then pop the bubble and reevaluate the whole process.

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45 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

WFL for Rigidity and power is unmatched from what I have heard. I have stalled a Multus with a 2" Highfeed cutter cutting some 13-8 PH. I have stalled just about every Mill/Turn I have programmed with certain cuts. Turning is one thing and milling is another and Horizontal Mill/Turns are not made for heavy roughing operations with milling tools. Time you get out past a certain point you have so much mass working against the spindle to clamp and hold the parts something has to give. I have proven time and time again roughing on HMC or Verticals for parts going to a Horizontal Mill/Turn is the better process. Let them focus on what they are meant to do multi tasking. Now Vertical Mill/Turns just seem to have more power and ability, but Horizontals are just not built the same way and they for all purposes can't be. Verticals don't care about thru the spindle capabilities and that allows more motor can be stuffed under them. Horizontals always have to give up something to allow thru the spindle material just they mature of their design and in doing they loose strength and power capabilities. The other natural thing working again horizontals is gravity that helps with Vertical machines. Doing production look at the process and develop the correct process to support the manufacturing of the parts. See it to many times we got this machine that is not the right fit for these parts, but it all we have and we are stuck with it. I showed one customer recently how to save 800 days a year on one part by just adjusting the process to manufacture their parts. Can the majority of the material be removed on a different machine and more than one at a time? If so now we get into unattended runtime and profitable processes. Mill/Turns for the most part are one offs per holding and yes we can do more and get a lot done, but if the parts don't fit in the correct bubble then pop the bubble and reevaluate the whole process.

Thank you for the reply.

 

48 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

WFL for Rigidity and power is unmatched from what I have heard. I have stalled a Multus with a 2" Highfeed cutter cutting some 13-8 PH. I have stalled just about every Mill/Turn I have programmed with certain cuts. Turning is one thing and milling is another and Horizontal Mill/Turns are not made for heavy roughing operations with milling tools. Time you get out past a certain point you have so much mass working against the spindle to clamp and hold the parts something has to give. I have proven time and time again roughing on HMC or Verticals for parts going to a Horizontal Mill/Turn is the better process. Let them focus on what they are meant to do multi tasking. Now Vertical Mill/Turns just seem to have more power and ability, but Horizontals are just not built the same way and they for all purposes can't be. Verticals don't care about thru the spindle capabilities and that allows more motor can be stuffed under them. Horizontals always have to give up something to allow thru the spindle material just they mature of their design and in doing they loose strength and power capabilities. The other natural thing working again horizontals is gravity that helps with Vertical machines. Doing production look at the process and develop the correct process to support the manufacturing of the parts. See it to many times we got this machine that is not the right fit for these parts, but it all we have and we are stuck with it. I showed one customer recently how to save 800 days a year on one part by just adjusting the process to manufacture their parts. Can the majority of the material be removed on a different machine and more than one at a time? If so now we get into unattended runtime and profitable processes. Mill/Turns for the most part are one offs per holding and yes we can do more and get a lot done, but if the parts don't fit in the correct bubble then pop the bubble and reevaluate the whole process.

Tried the WFL web site but its not coming up??

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2 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

WFL for Rigidity and power is unmatched from what I have heard. I have stalled a Multus with a 2" Highfeed cutter cutting some 13-8 PH. I have stalled just about every Mill/Turn I have programmed with certain cuts. Turning is one thing and milling is another and Horizontal Mill/Turns are not made for heavy roughing operations with milling tools. Time you get out past a certain point you have so much mass working against the spindle to clamp and hold the parts something has to give. I have proven time and time again roughing on HMC or Verticals for parts going to a Horizontal Mill/Turn is the better process. Let them focus on what they are meant to do multi tasking. Now Vertical Mill/Turns just seem to have more power and ability, but Horizontals are just not built the same way and they for all purposes can't be. Verticals don't care about thru the spindle capabilities and that allows more motor can be stuffed under them. Horizontals always have to give up something to allow thru the spindle material just they mature of their design and in doing they loose strength and power capabilities. The other natural thing working again horizontals is gravity that helps with Vertical machines. Doing production look at the process and develop the correct process to support the manufacturing of the parts. See it to many times we got this machine that is not the right fit for these parts, but it all we have and we are stuck with it. I showed one customer recently how to save 800 days a year on one part by just adjusting the process to manufacture their parts. Can the majority of the material be removed on a different machine and more than one at a time? If so now we get into unattended runtime and profitable processes. Mill/Turns for the most part are one offs per holding and yes we can do more and get a lot done, but if the parts don't fit in the correct bubble then pop the bubble and reevaluate the whole process.

 

Cliff Notes.. do your heavy roughing on machines built for heavy roughing 

Save your expensive and very precise mill/turns for the finish work.

There is no benefit to saving 20 minutes machining  a part if you a tearing up your half million dollar mill turn doing it. 

In the long run that will be a very expensive 20 minutes

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