Toolpath Groups Advise

[#Rekd™]

I just wondered what is the best way of organizing toolpath groups? Also when should you create a new toolpath group from the Machine Group and when should you create a new sub toolpath group from the initial toolpath group?

I did a search but couldn't find anything.

[AHarrison1]

For me it depends on the situation. For prototypes and one offs I will create toolpath groups for each op.

If I have a multi vise setup where each vise is a different op then my toolpath groups are tool based with sub groups for each tool op and make sure to change

work co-ords (G54, G55, etc) within each sub-group.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, #Rekd™ said:

I just wondered what is the best way of organizing toolpath groups? Also when should you create a new toolpath group from the Machine Group and when should you create a new sub toolpath group from the initial toolpath group?

I did a search but couldn't find anything.

If you are planning to nest the parts using toolpath nesting, each part needs to have its own group.

 

If it's a single part program, one group per setup is nice

Afaik all the groups are the same no matter how they are created

[JParis]

I handle it as such

I name my tool and then create a different sub-group for each location in which it works...

[Colin Gilchrist]

In general, I'm a big fan of adding Groups and Subgroups to organize your Operations Tree.

I will only add a "new machine group", when the "part physically moves to another machine". My tree looks very similar to John Paris' Tree above.

> Machine (only changes, if part "physically moves" to another machine)

    > OP 10 (or OP1, depends on your numbering convention. Aerospace tends to use increments of '10'.)

       > Tool 1

       > Tool 2

       > Tool 50 (etc.)

   > OP 20 (or OP2): We create a new "main node" under the Machine Group, any time a new WCS is used. (Part flips from 1st location, to 2nd location [vise], etc.)

       > Tool 1

       > Tool 2

       > Tool 3

 

How you organize your tree will depend quite a bit on the "type of work and machines" you are working with. For example, in John's Tree above, he is adding "extra subgroups", after the Tool Number, to indicate "which Work Offset Location" he is cutting at. This is because you might have "the same tool number", being used on multiple sides of a Tombstone.

> MCH

    > OP #

         > Tool #

               > Plane and/or Work Offset Number (basically > the location where the cutting is taking place.)

 

Now, I will also sometimes "break my convention" if there is a good reason for doing so. For example, I will sometimes create a group for a specific feature:

> MCH

    > OP #

        > 1/4-20 Tapped Holes

Now, in this "1/4-20 Tapped Holes" Group, I would typically have at least 3 separate Operations. One for each Tool being used, but typically 3 Ops. 1 = Drill, 2 = Tap, 3 = Chamfer.

For me, the deciding factor is "do I need to use these tools for any other work on my part, besides tapping these holes?"

> Why?

Because the tools I've put under that group are all related to the same feature on the part. Otherwise, you end up with "3 groups", each with a single operation underneath it. I'm not a fan of that.

For other parts, I will sometimes do something like this:

> MCH

    > OP #

         > ROUGH

            > T1

            > T2

            > T3

         > SEMI-FIN

            > T4

            > T5

         > FINISH

            > T6

            > T7

            > T11

            > T8

[cruzila]

KISS Don't overthink it. Make it so someone coming in with no prior knowledge of the setup can easily see what you are doing. Also, once you decide on a way of doing things, stick with it. Ive seen guys overcomplicate things so much it is better easier more reliable to just start over.

All good ideas above there's likely a limited number of options that make sense on organizing. I generally do one OP one group, but I do low qty type work.

I use every note field available as much as possible with plain language to explain the detail.

[Rstewart]

I've always done it like

MpMaster bla bla bla

  Op1

     Toolpath 

     Toolpath

     Toolpath

 Op2

     Toolpath

     Toolpath

 

I do however like the Idea of making subgroups with the Tool Number as the name....   I may have to try that out.

[bd41612]

I like to use sub-groups for special situations, a tool test or a process test, that can be easily segregated and ghosted.

Otherwise, I use a toolpath group for each operation like Colin mentioned, flipping over - new toolpath group.  By staying in the same machine group, you don't have to build stock for every operation, especially on a 3 axis mill with 3 or more operations.  I also use a bookmarked view sheet for every plane I create, so a view sheet with fixturing etc for each operation.  It means having more fixturing in the file but the payoff from the standpoint of organization and set up intent is readily available by clicking on the view sheet.

[CEMENTHEAD]

I've always been a ZERO 90 -90 guy

0 deg

toolpah

toolpath 

90 deg 

toolpath

toolpath

-90 deg

ect...

The snippet from AHARRISON1 just hurts my head.  sorry M8

[AHarrison1]

34 minutes ago, CEMENTHEAD said:

I've always been a ZERO 90 -90 guy

0 deg

toolpah

toolpath 

90 deg 

toolpath

toolpath

-90 deg

ect...

The snippet from AHARRISON1 just hurts my head.  sorry M8

No harm done fella, to each their own.

[gms1]

I do not like how mastercam now handles expand and collapse so I usually only create toolpath groups for each operation, never each tool. I use as few as possible.

[Aaron Eberhard]

Like everything in life, it varies   Overall, I'm a big fan of doing Op # > Subgroup.

If I'm doing a single part, I'm likely to do subgroups by feature.   If I'm doing tombstoning like JP is above, it makes more sense to do it by Tool. 

Like Colin, unless there's a really good reason, I only put in a new machine group when the part physically moves from one machine to another.  

The actual names of the groups may change to try to conform to the customers' needs.

Something like this for a single part:

Machine group:

• Op 1 - Prep - G54 - 6" Kurt Vise
  • Facing
  • 2d Dynamic
  • Drill
  • Circle mill
• Op 2 - G55  @ COR - 6" Soft jaws
  •  3+2 Roughing
    • Opti
    • Opti
  • 5 Axis Roughing
    • Pocketing
    • Pocketing
    • Pocketing
  • 5 Axis Finishing
    • Unified
    • Unified
    • Swarf

And a big +1 to really using viewsheets with bookmarks. 

[#Rekd™]

31 minutes ago, Aaron Eberhard said:

And a big +1 to really using viewsheets with bookmarks.

Along this line I think the main idea of my topic is trying to get a sense of an industry standard and Viewsheets should be at the top of the list!

[JB7280]

Semi-related, is there a keyboard shortcut to create new toolpath groups?  Or can one be assigned?  I wasn't able to find one. 

[crazy^millman]

41 minutes ago, JB7280 said:

Semi-related, is there a keyboard shortcut to create new toolpath groups?  Or can one be assigned?  I wasn't able to find one. 

No, but Roger at CNC Software did something to add groups with certain information sequentially and it was a huge help for a certain customer.

Byte also helped and made a cool Chook for adding groups using a process like it. It is a great tool when needed to add tons of groups without having to add them one at a time.

I have asked for years for the ability to add groups without having to do it one at a time. We are stuck with having to use Chook or something to get what should be basic functionality in the Toolpath manager.

[Colin Gilchrist]

3 hours ago, gms1 said:

I do not like how mastercam now handles expand and collapse so I usually only create toolpath groups for each operation, never each tool. I use as few as possible.

Try this:

Click on the "Machine Group", (This puts your "mouse focus" on the Toolpaths Manager.

Now, press "E" on your keyboard. No ALT. No CTRL. Just "E"

Press "E" repeatedly.

Eventually, the Machine group will be completely "collapsed". Pressing "E" one more time, will expand all of your Groups, but keep the Operations "collapsed".

If you continue pressing "E", eventually Masteram will expand all groups and operations (plus signs). Keep pressing "E" (notice a theme here), and you'll start collapsing Ops & Groups.

[Seedy steve]

9 minutes ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

Try this:

Click on the "Machine Group",

Also try selecting one toolpath.... press E  a few times.

 

11 minutes ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

expand and collapse

everything below it changes state

[JB7280]

29 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

No, but Roger at CNC Software did something to add groups with certain information sequentially and it was a huge help for a certain customer.

Byte also helped and made a cool Chook for adding groups using a process like it. It is a great tool when needed to add tons of groups without having to add them one at a time.

I have asked for years for the ability to add groups without having to do it one at a time. We are stuck with having to use Chook or something to get what should be basic functionality in the Toolpath manager.

Are these chooks/add-ins available?  Or is it something the customer paid for?

[gms1]

I just miss the days of right-click group, collapse / right-click group, expand.

[crazy^millman]

31 minutes ago, JB7280 said:

Are these chooks/add-ins available?  Or is it something the customer paid for?

Reach out to Roger it was not a Paid project, but since it was developed for my company I would only share it if he is okay with me doing so. Peter(Byte) is on the board you can PM him and see if what he came up with fee or part of his chargeable stuff. He needs to make money like the rest of us.

23 minutes ago, gms1 said:

I just miss the days of right-click group, collapse / right-click group, expand.

Yes it was nice when you could pick on one group and have it collapse and expand that one group and not all of them.

[JB7280]

11 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

Reach out to Roger it was not a Paid project, but since it was developed for my company I would only share it if he is okay with me doing so. Peter(Byte) is on the board you can PM him and see if what he came up with fee or part of his chargeable stuff. He needs to make money like the rest of us.

Yes it was nice when you could pick on one group and have it collapse and expand that one group and not all of them.

Thank you.  No problem helping to support software developers.  Could you PM me information where I could contact this Roger fella?  

[Aaron Eberhard]

11 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

Yes it was nice when you could pick on one group and have it collapse and expand that one group and not all of them.

Alt+E (screen hide in the graphics area) will cycle your selected ops through the three expand/collapsed options, but it does it to every under your selection.  I wonder if the system team knows about that?  I'll send it in.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, JB7280 said:

Thank you.  No problem helping to support software developers.  Could you PM me information where I could contact this Roger fella?  

Sdk<at>Mastercam<dot>com is the contact for their team

 

This isn't something I would monetize on, It's fairly trivial to implement and is very useful, Iirc Roger had it mostly figured out already...

 

I'm actually de-monetizing a lot of products in an effort to make the software more appealing to new us3rs and drive traffic to my website

 

 

[Aaron Eberhard]

2 minutes ago, byte said:

I'm actually de-monetizing a lot of products in an effort to make the software more appealing to new us3rs and drive traffic to my website

I'd add a link to your website in your signature... . Just sayin'....

[JB7280]

16 minutes ago, byte said:

Sdk<at>Mastercam<dot>com is the contact for their team

 

This isn't something I would monetize on, It's fairly trivial to implement and is very useful, Iirc Roger had it mostly figured out already...

 

I'm actually de-monetizing a lot of products in an effort to make the software more appealing to new us3rs and drive traffic to my website

 

 

Your website, being the other forum?