New laptop for Mastercam/Solidworks

[JB7280]

Boss asked me to look over the quote for a new laptop, as our old ones are starting to bog with some of the more complex parts we've been making. 

How does this machine look to you folks?

 Core i7 10850H / 2.7 GHz

 vPro

 128 GB RAM

 512 GB SSD TCG Opal Encryption 2, NVMe

 15.6" OLED touchscreen 3840 x 2160 (Ultra HD 4K)

 Quadro T2000

[crazy^millman]

Go with the I-9 and at least 4000 series Quardo Card. I have a RTX-5000 16gb card in mine.

[JB7280]

1 minute ago, crazy^millman said:

Go with the I-9 and at least 4000 series Quardo Card. I have a RTX-5000 16gb card in mine.

I'll talk to them tomorrow.  If I couldnt get both, which would be a bigger benefit?

[crazy^millman]

19 minutes ago, JB7280 said:

I'll talk to them tomorrow.  If I couldnt get both, which would be a bigger benefit?

Processor.

One the Video card side a 2000 is not terrible, but a 4000 shouldn't break the bank.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

I know I've said this a million times, but first, do you actually need a laptop, or will a desktop work?  I know some (like Ron who programs at customer sites and on airplanes) need a laptop.  The rest of us will get far more bang for the buck from a desktop.

[crazy^millman]

26 minutes ago, Matthew Hajicek - Conventus said:

I know I've said this a million times, but first, do you actually need a laptop, or will a desktop work?  I know some (like Ron who programs at customer sites and on airplanes) need a laptop.  The rest of us will get far more bang for the buck from a desktop.

I can agree. I have the Laptop on a cooling pad with a Klim Air Vacuum running at 4100 rpms so I am keeping it really cool. Hadn't had to program on Airplane in years and honestly using just a single screen to do anything anymore like just a laptop screen I feel lost.

[JB7280]

40 minutes ago, Matthew Hajicek - Conventus said:

I know I've said this a million times, but first, do you actually need a laptop, or will a desktop work?  I know some (like Ron who programs at customer sites and on airplanes) need a laptop.  The rest of us will get far more bang for the buck from a desktop.

I spend a lot of time at the machine with my laptop while I'm proving a program out, and our shop consists of 3 separate buildings.    We have discussed doing upgraded towers, and keeping our existing laptops for while we're at the machines.  

[cncappsjames]

I wouldn't even consider a an i7. i9 all the way.

[JB7280]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll be talking with management today.  We have a 3rd party company that handles our IT, computers, etc, so of course that PC is marked up.  I can get a maxxed out laptop from Boxx (i9, 128gb ram, 16gb RTX3080, etc) for only $500 above what that machine costs.  I'm going to present that to them later today.  

[JB7280]

So the IT company is re-specing the computer, and he is "warning me" that Mastercam recommends a Quadro, and I might not get as good of performance out of the RTX.  Is there anything I could show to verify better performance from the RTX3080?

[neurosis]

11 minutes ago, JB7280 said:

Is there anything I could show to verify better performance from the RTX3080?

Only if you want to show them a video of you playing Cyber Punk.   

[JB7280]

Just now, neurosis said:

Only if you want to show them a video of you playing Cyber Punk.   

Lol, will it perform better than the Quadro though?  I saw lots of suggestions for the RTX so I assumed it performs better.

 

In many places it looks like the RTX replaced the Quadro?

[MWearne]

Nvidia is getting things really confusing with their card naming right now. Some RTX are in fact quadros. The RTX4000 is the newest quadro 4000. But, they have a new line of GeForce coming out which are RTX 4070, 4080 etc. So they are really messing things up right now lol

FWIW, I use an RTX 3080 without issue. No one has been able to show me how a quadro outperforms this in Mastercam. But in an industrial setting I would point you towards the quadros just because they are supposed to be more bullet proof.

...guess I should add in info about SolidWorks too. The GeForce cards do not run SolidWorks approved drivers so you may run into support issues there if you are getting odd happenings. The only short coming I found in SW with the 3080 was I couldn't run some VR stuff. 

[JB7280]

6 minutes ago, mwearne said:

Nvidia is getting things really confusing with their card naming right now. Some RTX are in fact quadros. The RTX4000 is the newest quadro 4000. But, they have a new line of GeForce coming out which are RTX 4070, 4080 etc. So they are really messing things up right now lol

FWIW, I use an RTX 3080 without issue. No one has been able to show me how a quadro outperforms this in Mastercam. But in an industrial setting I would point you towards the quadros just because they are supposed to be more bullet proof.

Thank you!  I know I had seen Quadro and RTX in the same places and wasn't sure.  The new machine they spec'ed has a Xeon CPU and an RTX Quadro 5000

[JParis]

Right from the Driver download page

 

 

[crazy^millman]

7 minutes ago, JB7280 said:

Thank you!  I know I had seen Quadro and RTX in the same places and wasn't sure.  The new machine they spec'ed has a Xeon CPU and an RTX Quadro 5000

Get away from the Xeon a I9 is much better for Mastercam than the Xeon.

[JB7280]

Just now, crazy^millman said:

Get away from the Xeon a I9 is much better for Mastercam than the Xeon.

Ok, thank you.  Any particular reason why?  Theyll probably ask me.

[Aaron Eberhard]

10 minutes ago, JB7280 said:

Ok, thank you.  Any particular reason why?  Theyll probably ask me.

(Painting with a broad brush here) In general, Xeons are better a multithreading at the expense of individual core speed.  i9s will have better individual core processing power at the expense of less cores.  IN GENERAL, using a CAM system will often be bottlenecked by individual clock speed for a specific operation.  However, if you have a very specific range of conditions, a Xeon can be faster, but it's rare.    I gave a (very simple) example here.

[JB7280]

18 minutes ago, Aaron Eberhard said:

(Painting with a broad brush here) In general, Xeons are better a multithreading at the expense of individual core speed.  i9s will have better individual core processing power at the expense of less cores.  IN GENERAL, using a CAM system will often be bottlenecked by individual clock speed for a specific operation.  However, if you have a very specific range of conditions, a Xeon can be faster, but it's rare.    I gave a (very simple) example here.

Thank you!  That makes sense. 

[gcode]

29 minutes ago, JB7280 said:

Ok, thank you.  Any particular reason why?  Theyll probably ask me.

I can't speak to the theory behind it.

I base my opinion on empirical facts.

Review the Benchmark threads going back to the original one started 15 years ago

I used to buy the biggest baddest Dell Xeon machine I could afford

At one point I even had a dual processor Xeon machine purchased from the  Dell Business Outlet store.

Invariably, my big $$$ Xeons got trounced by Pentium 4's (remember those) and i7's costing 1/3 to 1/2 what I was spending.

 

[crazy^millman]

7 minutes ago, gcode said:

I can't speak to the theory behind it.

I base my opinion on empirical facts.

Review the Benchmark threads going back to the original one started 15 years ago

I used to buy the biggest baddest Dell Xeon machine I could afford

At one point I even had a dual processor Xeon machine purchased from the  Dell Business Outlet store.

Invariably, my big $$$ Xeons got trounced by Pentium 4's (remember those) and i7's costing 1/3 to 1/2 what I was spending.

 

My experience exactly.

[JB7280]

12 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

My experience exactly.

Well that stinks.  Our IT group says supply is tight and there's nothing available in i9 with an RTX3000+.  Only the Xeon.  

[#Rekd™]

RTX4000 should be your minimum....you want something that will be powerful for years to come.

Look for single core speed in the CPU.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

[JB7280]

10 minutes ago, #Rekd™ said:

RTX4000 should be your minimum....you want something that will be powerful for years to come.

Look for single core speed in the CPU.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

The one they actually quoted was an RTX5000, but no i9.  It was a Xeon10855 2.8ghz, which I don't see in those benchmarks, but none of the Xeons were at the top, so I'd assume this one would be similar.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

I feel for you.  In my experience it's very difficult to get the computer you really need when working through an outsourced IT company.  I've had to do it at two companies, and at both, when I sent them a list of specific components (brand and model number), they would swap things out with what they thought was vaguely comparable, but they could get through their approved suppliers.  Back and forth for months; no, I don't want that, I want this.  In both cases I was eventually able to buy and build the systems I wanted, by promising management that I would take full responsibility for my system, and they served me well.