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Memory Lane


Roger
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1 hour ago, crazy^millman said:

Two PHDs wrote that to give you an idea the complexity of what we do and how they were best equipped at the time to make a book about Mastercam. A lot of owners and Managers still think a Walmart greeter can do this stuff.

Was hired by a guy that thought that.  Funny thing is I was hired after he gave the job to someone else, he was trying to prove the point, and I was his backup plan.  Guess who is still here and which 2 are gone...

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4 hours ago, So not a Guru said:

Yep, in today's social climate, anyone with a facebook page, "doing their own research", is an expert...whether they can spell it or not.:coffee:

We had a kid who no longer works here tell the boss one day that he was going to leave for greener pastures because he didn't feel like he was getting paid what he was worth.  We asked what he thought he was worth and why he thought that.

He had watched a bunch of youtube videos and instagram posts and thought that he had become an expert.  :lol: 

The boss told him to take the other job and that his job would be waiting for him when he came back.

He was back in less than 30 days.

It turned out that he didn't learn as much as he thought he did and they were able to figure that out fairly quickly. 

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1 hour ago, neurosis said:

We had a kid who no longer works here tell the boss one day that he was going to leave for greener pastures because he didn't feel like he was getting paid what he was worth.  We asked what he thought he was worth and why he thought that.

He had watched a bunch of youtube videos and instagram posts and thought that he had become an expert.  :lol: 

The boss told him to take the other job and that his job would be waiting for him when he came back.

He was back in less than 30 days.

It turned out that he didn't learn as much as he thought he did and they were able to figure that out fairly quickly. 

I tried to learn how to snow ski about 5 years ago. The Ski Instructor was telling us the Eskimos have 20 words for snow since it can be that different. I learned real quick I am not a Snow Skier and I am okay with that. It got me thinking about the professional Snow Skiers and the places they go. The extreme skiers get really out in the back woods trying and doing things most would never do. Why is that? Because they have the knowledge and hands on experience to do it. I then started to think about the the PHD people I have meet in the last decade with degrees in this that or the other who have never really had any hands on experience. I equated it about the same way. I can read as many books on Snow Skiing as I want. I can go buy all the best equipment to be a professional snow skier. I can watch a 1000 you tube videos on Snow Skiing, but until I can be dropped off in the the most extreme place that the pro''s go and do it like the pros I am not a pro. I could have a PHD in Snow Skiing without ever having been on the snow and that is really the problem with most of academia. People go to 12-16 years of college to learn the theory or thoughts of the process, but many never every had to do it. They then want to come in with these impossible task and then wonder why it doesn't go as planned.   

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About a year ago I was hired at my new company to replace their programmer who was retiring.  He was a bit of a packrat so when I was cleaning out his (now my) office it was like opening a time capsule of Mastercam/general CNC related stuff.  I started using mastercam at like X7 so seeing manuals and stuff for the versions nearly as old as I am was pretty wild.

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17 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

They then want to come in with these impossible task and then wonder why it doesn't go as planned.   

I've been able to make a career by making the "impossible" happen.... :)

You've been pretty darn good at that yourself Ron :cheers:

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16 hours ago, gcode said:

All a college degree proves is that you are capable of learning.

It is experience at the school of hard knocks that makes you valuable to an employer

I work for a guy who loved to hire college grads, even if the job had absolutely nothing to do with their degree. He said grads proved 3 essential facts; they could stick with a project until it was complete, they could work under a deadline & they were capable of learning.

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34 minutes ago, JParis said:

I've been able to make a career by making the "impossible" happen.... :)

You've been pretty darn good at that yourself Ron :cheers:

I am talking about Zero True Position on a Titanium part with a hole that is 24" long that has a +/-.00005" tolerance with a profile tolerance of .002" that is for lighting a part and think it should only take 5 minutes to figure out how to machine it, 2 minutes to machine it and tooling should only cost $4 to make it happen.

Quote part that takes 800 hours to machine to only take 40 hours and then wonder why you cannot make that happen?

Best one was reduced 100 hours of roughing on a 7200lb piece of Aluminum down to 40 hours which I didn't think I could make happen to then be asked to reduce it down to 10 hours. I said no way ever going to happen unless we design a $50 million piece of equipment that had 4 spindles on it and can levitate the part in space and allow you to machine it without clamping, but hold it stationary to machine it. Yes they honestly thought I was serious. It was sent to 10 shops and tons of money thrown at it. Still as far as I know running the original program we made 7 years ago.

I loved this clause on one customers Terms and Conditions. I refused to sign it and quit doing work for them over it. No way I am agreeing to sign anything that allows them to collet that kind of money without proving real damage.

Quote

We both agree that monetary damages would be inadequate to compensate Discloser
for any breach of this NDA and that any such breach shall cause irreparable injury to Discloser. In addition to any
other remedies that may be available for such breach, and without proving actual damages, Discloser shall be
entitled to obtain injunctive relief against the continued or threatened breach of this NDA. In addition, XXXXXX
shall be entitled to liquidated damages of $100,000 for any mention of XXXXXX or disclosure of our relationship in
any way in marketing materials, presentations, press releases, interviews, or other public statements, without
XXXXXX written consent, such amount not intended to be a penalty and which the parties agree represent a fair
and reasonable estimate of the damages caused by such breach.

 

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Had one recently where I was being nice and realized real quick was not going to go well. Customer got a LTA project based off of a quoted run time and estimated cost to machine and make some parts they came up with having never every seen a CNC Machine before. Tooling budget for the whole project was less than I normally quote for one holder and tool when quoting a LTA type of project. Then I got the run time estimate and then realized I was dealing with a company that was going to be losing money real quick even trying to do the job. I even took the run time estimate they provided with the expected yearly requirements and they would need 114% machine uptime for 24 hours per day with 365 days on one piece of equipment to make that happen. I no bid the work and they were not happy I refused to consider taking the project on. They are going to show me and more power to them and hopefully they can figure out how to beat the laws of physics. One thing I have learned over the years if the math don't add up stop and figure out why. Easier to go back and re-quote a project than take a project on and give your customer money to make the parts for them. Real hard to stay in business if you are not turning a profit.  

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21 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

I tried to learn how to snow ski about 5 years ago. The Ski Instructor was telling us the Eskimos have 20 words for snow since it can be that different. I learned real quick I am not a Snow Skier and I am okay with that. It got me thinking about the professional Snow Skiers and the places they go. The extreme skiers get really out in the back woods trying and doing things most would never do. Why is that? Because they have the knowledge and hands on experience to do it. I then started to think about the the PHD people I have meet in the last decade with degrees in this that or the other who have never really had any hands on experience. I equated it about the same way. I can read as many books on Snow Skiing as I want. I can go buy all the best equipment to be a professional snow skier. I can watch a 1000 you tube videos on Snow Skiing, but until I can be dropped off in the the most extreme place that the pro''s go and do it like the pros I am not a pro. I could have a PHD in Snow Skiing without ever having been on the snow and that is really the problem with most of academia. People go to 12-16 years of college to learn the theory or thoughts of the process, but many never every had to do it. They then want to come in with these impossible task and then wonder why it doesn't go as planned.   

My mom grew up above the arctic circle in Sweden and her ancestors are indigenous reindeer herders called Sami.  Supposedly they have 180 words for snow and over 1000 words for reindeer. 

 

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23 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

I can read as many books on Snow Skiing as I want. I can go buy all the best equipment to be a professional snow skier. I can watch a 1000 you tube videos on Snow Skiing, but until I can be dropped off in the the most extreme place that the pro''s go and do it like the pros I am not a pro. I could have a PHD in Snow Skiing without ever having been on the snow and that is really the problem with most of academia. 

YOU SIR WIN THE INTERNET TODAY!

 

I have a friend that does that backcountry skiiing off heli drops. He is the guy filming the customer but he is skiing backwards filming it!!!! Insane!

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22 hours ago, gcode said:

All a college degree proves is that you are capable of learning.

It is experience at the school of hard knocks that makes you valuable to an employer

That is all good and everything, but guess I am of the mind set no matter how much you read about how to do, hear about how to, watch videos how to do something you can only really understand what it takes to do it at by actually doing it.  Even then some things take years to be good at. I liked the Fusion ad that was running "Learn to be a 5 Axis programmer in 2 weeks using Fusion". I have programmed 5 Axis machines for over two decades and still get my butt handed to me on some projects. Problem is someone with no experience trying to mange or run a shop read or hears that and thinks experience means nothing and can go buy that software and hire a Walmart greeter and be a full 5 Axis shop in one month.

Colleges pass out Engineering Degrees all the time and many of the engineers have never touched a machine in their life, but are designing parts to be made by machines calling out stupid tolerances and designing features that turn a $5 part in a $100k part with their lack of knowledge about what is really takes to manufacture parts. Someone tries to explain to them the concepts and principles behind why certain things they have done or called out add costs to manufacture it and it is almost immediately dismissed because we don't have Papers on the wall showing we were able to learn in an classroom verses learning how to do it in real life.

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On 4/21/2022 at 12:06 PM, crazy^millman said:

That is all good and everything, but guess I am of the mind set no matter how much you read about how to do, hear about how to, watch videos how to do something you can only really understand what it takes to do it at by actually doing it.  Even then some things take years to be good at. I liked the Fusion ad that was running "Learn to be a 5 Axis programmer in 2 weeks using Fusion". I have programmed 5 Axis machines for over two decades and still get my butt handed to me on some projects. Problem is someone with no experience trying to mange or run a shop read or hears that and thinks experience means nothing and can go buy that software and hire a Walmart greeter and be a full 5 Axis shop in one month.

Colleges pass out Engineering Degrees all the time and many of the engineers have never touched a machine in their life, but are designing parts to be made by machines calling out stupid tolerances and designing features that turn a $5 part in a $100k part with their lack of knowledge about what is really takes to manufacture parts. Someone tries to explain to them the concepts and principles behind why certain things they have done or called out add costs to manufacture it and it is almost immediately dismissed because we don't have Papers on the wall showing we were able to learn in an classroom verses learning how to do it in real life.

I done edumacated a few eng-gineers in my day. They were all better for it, at least the ones that listened....

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On 4/21/2022 at 12:06 PM, crazy^millman said:

Someone tries to explain to them the concepts and principles behind why certain things they have done or called out add costs to manufacture it and it is almost immediately dismissed because

Because "I'm an engineer"...I've got that one a few times...  I chuckle these days.  That said, the company where I'm at the engineers actually listen to me, and ask questions about how they can engineer things to be easier to machine.

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