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Memory Lane


Roger
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58 minutes ago, Roger said:
IMHO, I think ever machinist out there should start with manual machining before getting into CNC's...

You hit on a good point here. How will the AI learn to manual machine? Maybe this is why it has failed so far?

Silly computer engineers all you need do is teach the AI to file, hacksaw, weld, and manual machine and it should be able to take it from there....

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6 hours ago, Roger said:

I started my college machining classes 43 years ago.....(I'm an OLD FART!)  Back then, CNC's where for the most part (NEW) to the machining trade.  We had a paper punch knee mill.  You had to program by hand, type in the code on a teletype machine, feed the mill the program, and run it.  We also had to learn to read the tape..  I don't know why on that though.  I digress..

Back to the filing, etc.  The first part of the class was to cut a piece of material, FILE all sides, square & parallel, and to length.  After that, you scraped it flat top & bottom using the file end as a scraper.  After that, it was layout of holes that you drilled, tapped, reamed, etc.  Again, having to keep to the print, and the tolerance specified on the print.  We also learned how to sharpen a drill bit by hand, (Both, large (1"), and small).  Welding Bandsaw blades together.  All of our lathe tools where HSS ground by hand.  (That was also graded).

This was a two year course, and was considered to be the best machining course west of the Mississippi river.  Besides the machining course, you had to take Welding, (Oxyacetylene, Brazing, and Arc.), Blueprint Reading for machinists, Drafting, and Math. (Trigonometry, Algebra, and Geometry.  All the math taught by the machinist instructor).

The machining part covered, Lathes, (Basic turning, Threading, Cutting angles using the compound, Taper attachment, and Off setting the tail stock, etc.  Also had to memorize all the parts of the lathe, i.e. Chuck, Saddle, Compound, Tail Stock, etc...)  Mills, Grinders, (Surface grinder, Cylindrical grinder, and I.D./O.D. grinder), Shaper machine, Saws, ETC..

Besides ALL OF THE ABOVE, There was Greensand Casting, Metallurgy, and Heat Treating. 

IMHO, I think ever machinist out there should start with manual machining before getting into CNC's...

As an example of this:  When I was taking my Mastercam courses, after many, many years as a manual machinist,  There was a women in the course, (Sent there by her employer), that ask the question, "Why can't you use a drill bit to mill a slot?"

I'll finish with that.  Good Day!

I did all of that when I took Machine Shop when I went half a day to Trade School and the other half to Regular Classes. I was the only AP student in our whole county taking Trade School classes. In the Mid to Late 80's anyone taking Trade school was considered remedial and sometimes the AP classes were offered at the same time as Trade School so I would have to take regular classes with students who didn't care to even be in school with teachers who didn't care to teach them. 10th Grade the Geometry teacher would get so frustrated with the students he would tell me to teach class. We got half was through the school year and he told the class okay we are starting over none of you are getting this. I raised my hand and started protesting. He gave me the Trigonometry book and said teach yourself this for the rest of the year and go early to the trade school you have an A for the rest of the year I don't want to see your face.

My 10th Grade VICA(Now Skills USA) was making a Space Shuttle Replica that was part of the School Display. We improved on it for my Junior year, but did start on the Senior Project a Ferris Wheel. That was our project for the School display and it was a fun project and I was the Speaker for it. I went to state and we took 2nd place. Everyone should now what and how a file works.  Just like every tool we use and have we should have a general idea what they do. 

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I attended the US Army  Repair Shop Machinists course in Aberdeen Maryland in 1976

I was a one of 8 Marines enrolled in the Army course. The course and the machines were

modern and it really was a pretty good course.

There were class lectures, lessons on microfiche players and exercises on machines with

instructors to guide you. At the end of each module, you were given a sketch and a piece of stock

and sent to the secure test shop to build the part.

I was a Marine and the penalty for failure was assignment to the infantry as a field radio operator. 

When I started the course I was introduced to a functionally illiterate staff sergeant.

He was a 3 tour Vietnam era infantry combat vet who had reenlisted to go into the maintenance field.

Too old and beat up to finish his 20 years in the infantry, he was going into maintenance.

It was made clear to me  that if the staff sergeant failed the course, I failed the course and my 

next stop was field radio school at Camp Lejeune. The staff sergeant pretended to be attending

the classes and I went into the secure testing area with 2 pieces of stock at the end of each

module.

Everybody involved turned a blind eye to this, the goal being to get a respected combat vet

through the course so he could finish his 20 years and collect his pension.

Once I got to a duty station in the Marines, it was  all WW2 vintage equipment . Leather belt

driven lathes, shapers, high speed steel tool bits etc etc. 

There was almost zero actual machining of parts, but I did become a world class broken bolt remover

My last duty station was El Toro California and my desire to build things led me to take a part

time job at a shop out in town. I've been in the trade ever since. 

In the mid 90's I took 3 semesters of Mastercam (V5) followed by 3 semesters of SolidWorks at a local community college.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, gcode said:

I attended the US Army  Repair Shop Machinists course in Aberdeen Maryland in 1976

I was a one of 8 Marines enrolled in the Army course. The course and the machines were

modern and it really was a pretty good course.

There were class lectures, lessons on microfiche players and exercises on machines with

instructors to guide you. At the end of each module, you were given a sketch and a piece of stock

and sent to the secure test shop to build the part.

I was a Marine and the penalty for failure was assignment to the infantry as a field radio operator. 

When I started the course I was introduced to a functionally illiterate staff sergeant.

He was a 3 tour Vietnam era infantry combat vet who had reenlisted to go into the maintenance field.

Too old and beat up to finish his 20 years in the infantry, he was going into maintenance.

It was made clear to me  that if the staff sergeant failed the course, I failed the course and my 

next stop was field radio school at Camp Lejeune. The staff sergeant pretended to be attending

the classes and I went into the secure testing area with 2 pieces of stock at the end of each

module.

Everybody involved turned a blind eye to this, the goal being to get a respected combat vet

through the course so he could finish his 20 years and collect his pension.

Once I got to a duty station in the Marines, it was  all WW2 vintage equipment . Leather belt

driven lathes, shapers, high speed steel tool bits etc etc. 

There was almost zero actual machining of parts, but I did become a world class broken bolt remover

My last duty station was El Toro California and my desire to build things led me to take a part

time job at a shop out in town. I've been in the trade ever since. 

In the mid 90's I took 3 semesters of Mastercam (V5) followed by 3 semesters of SolidWorks at a local community college.

 

 

I ran a 72" VTL that was belt driven.. If you didn't feather the clutch when starting the table, it would throw the belt EVER TIME!  I would have to get maintenance guy over to get it back on the pulleys...  Those where the GOOD OLD DAYS, RIGHT??

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NEUROSIS:  I've been looking for the OffTopic Forum.  Can you log on to this site with your same account as here?  Or, do you need to join at the OffTopic Site?

387270228_Screenshot2022-04-30084422.jpg.900658871123da6eb21c74306ab7e0ca.jpg

I tried to join, but kept getting an error.  Could the area I circled be causing this?

572891513_Screenshot2022-04-30084547.thumb.jpg.c3d05fdf6739ae30b16d37ff719e9c9a.jpg

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15 minutes ago, Roger said:

NEUROSIS:  I've been looking for the OffTopic Forum.  Can you log on to this site with your same account as here?  Or, do you need to join at the OffTopic Site?

 

I tried to join, but kept getting an error.  Could the area I circled be causing this?

 

It's a different site.  We branched off when they shut down the offtopic here.

I want to make sure that it's clear that were not trying to take away from this forum but to kinda add the alternative offtopic back. 

You'll have to create an account on that forum.  If you decide to and have any issues let me know and we'll get it sorted out. 

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1 hour ago, neurosis said:

It's a different site.  We branched off when they shut down the offtopic here.

I want to make sure that it's clear that were not trying to take away from this forum but to kinda add the alternative offtopic back. 

You'll have to create an account on that forum.  If you decide to and have any issues let me know and we'll get it sorted out. 

 

 

I keep receiving an error message:

339361118_Screenshot2022-04-30104921.thumb.jpg.8a3118af37822202daf1e88026355d70.jpg 

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Each side of the conventional/cnc by hand/by equipment argument has merit. Having manual experience made me a better machinist I am absolutely certain of that. Would I have learned those skills that have proven valuable time and time again some other way? Perhaps. Then again maybe not. 

 

I think in the programming world we have the same scenario; guys as old as me learned wireframe/surface modeling (old school) programming vs. Solid Modeling programming. WHEN solid models go bad, I have NO problems. I've got MANY tools to work around that. The programmers that started around late 90's/early 2000's don't have all those tools/skills. 

Interesting discussion for sure.

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