Jump to content

Welcome to eMastercam

Register now to participate in the forums, access the download area, buy Mastercam training materials, post processors and more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.

Use your display name or email address to sign in:

How does everyone get stock material sizes?


CNCZACK
 Share

Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, RaiderX said:

Verisurf min bounding box is my go to for odd featured shapes, just add prefurred excess and good to go. 

In my case we do pump cases, they may be sent out to have 3/16" all over but come back with 1/2" in the bore .100" on a face ect.. alot of strange radii in there too. would you hand measure a whole part like this? im trying to see if maybe other companies are using any scanning technology to take the guess work out of measuring some of these things. also i dont have any experience with Verisuf. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Tim Johnson said:

I put the casting model in line with the part model and can physically see where to do the cutting.

so generally your casting models are identical to your part model? our casting models get some deviation but are faaaar from what comes in sometimes lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, CNCZACK said:

so generally your casting models are identical to your part model? our casting models get some deviation but are faaaar from what comes in sometimes lol

Our castings are inspected when we receive them and if they're out of tolerance they get sent back.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, CNCZACK said:

so generally your casting models are identical to your part model? our casting models get some deviation but are faaaar from what comes in sometimes lol

There's something to be said for working with Investment castings  :)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tim Johnson said:

Our castings are inspected when we receive them and if they're out of tolerance they get sent back.

Ours as well but theyre scanned in with a Farrell arm that color codes the material but doesnt produce a stock model. theyre only sent back if they lack enough material, never for too much lol  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, CNCZACK said:

Ours as well but theyre scanned in with a Farrell arm that color codes the material but doesnt produce a stock model. theyre only sent back if they lack enough material, never for too much lol  

Our castings get inspected on a CMM. I see them getting inspected but never see the report. I think they have to save the reports for a certain period of time.

We have a couple castings with 10 separate offsets but the average is around 6 or 7.

My biggest issue with the castings is that engineering wants ±.005" tolerances on ±.030" casting tolerances so I have to add multiple offsets on most of them. A lot of the castings sit next to each other so they have a "customer friendly" fit.

Maybe seven to ten years ago one of our salesmen (most of them are chemists) was given a tour through a lab. Lab people are rough on their instruments and this one was no exception. A lot of instruments had broken parts, missing button covers, etc. When they got to one of our instruments there was a label partly peeled off. The salesman filed a report stating what he found and now instead of having a sticker Leco label our instruments have a die cast label affixed to a casting.

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, CNCZACK said:

In my case we do pump cases, they may be sent out to have 3/16" all over but come back with 1/2" in the bore .100" on a face ect.. alot of strange radii in there too. would you hand measure a whole part like this? im trying to see if maybe other companies are using any scanning technology to take the guess work out of measuring some of these things. also i dont have any experience with Verisuf. 

In this case, I would pray or let the machine cut air. The way you are going about it seems like the best for what you have explained. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CNCZACK said:

Ours as well but theyre scanned in with a Farrell arm that color codes the material but doesnt produce a stock model. theyre only sent back if they lack enough material, never for too much lol  

My last name is Farrell.....my arms aren't super accurate lol I'm sure you mean Pharaoh arm.

I always go out and measure things you like you said you do. I don't really see a way around it. Even with a casting model, the castings themselves can deviate a considerable amount as you know. 

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TFarrell9 said:

My last name is Farrell.....my arms aren't super accurate lol I'm sure you mean Pharaoh arm.

I always go out and measure things you like you said you do. I don't really see a way around it. Even with a casting model, the castings themselves can deviate a considerable amount as you know. 

That's the ones they used to build the egyptian pyramids.  I think you're both referring to FARO Arms.  

  • Like 3
  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, CNCZACK said:

In my case we do pump cases, they may be sent out to have 3/16" all over but come back with 1/2" in the bore .100" on a face ect.. alot of strange radii in there too. would you hand measure a whole part like this? im trying to see if maybe other companies are using any scanning technology to take the guess work out of measuring some of these things. also i dont have any experience with Verisuf. 

Verisurf with a scanner on a PCMM is the only way to go in a situation like this. Scan the part and get a Point cloud right from the software inside of Mastercam that you can build your stock model from an done. Need to create a best fit to know how to machine it? No problem using Verisurf. All can be done on the machine also if you wanted to. Not sure who your Mastercam dealer is, but if they have the Master3DGage arm then they have a direct relationship with Verisurf. Ask them to get a hold of someone from Verisurf to come in and give you a demo with a Faro or Romer arm and then go from there.

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I do on our forgings is just make an offset stock model. I am provided a model of what it is supposed to be, but of course the real world isn't perfect. I just make a stock model from the model provided and use the additional offset box to add stock to it everywhere. Yes, it may cut a little air but it's better than  smashing a tool into the stock and having a real bad day. It's a pick your poison kind of thing. Of course, all the other options mentioned  were great, just listing another option that I have had to use at times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Will the next batch, or the batch five years down the road, have the exact same extra stock on them?  If not, you could be setting up for a problem.

Doing die cast vent blocks about a decade ago, my boss hated air cutting, and made me program with no extra allowance.  Then the next time the part came up, they'd saw the stock 1/4" or 3/8" bigger, wreck the tool, and yell at me for it.  I told him you have three options: saw to a tighter tolerance, program for the largest possible stock, or take some cycle time to probe.  We did the probing thing briefly, but he got aggravated by the extra minute added onto a four hour program and pulled the plug on that.  He would rather the spindle be turning, even if it's wasting time.

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
On 5/6/2022 at 6:06 PM, CNCZACK said:

In my case we do pump cases, they may be sent out to have 3/16" all over but come back with 1/2" in the bore .100" on a face ect.. alot of strange radii in there too. would you hand measure a whole part like this? im trying to see if maybe other companies are using any scanning technology to take the guess work out of measuring some of these things. also i dont have any experience with Verisuf. 

You've answered your own question....If the part comes back with unknown sizes, it has to be measured.

Or as Matt says - you cut safe (air).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
On 5/6/2022 at 5:39 PM, crazy^millman said:

Scan the part and get a Point cloud right from the software inside of Mastercam that you can build your stock model from an done.

@CNCJACK

You can do this with your Faro arm as well.

WTH? We can't tag a user, using the @name format, in the conversation anymore?

I like the forum's new format less & less with every post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I'm somewhat immune to this since I machine HPDC parts and we have our own foundry and die casting in-house.  Customers send us a cast and machined models.  We source dies for the customer, to ensure they fit our die casting machines and verify them once they arrive.  If any cast features are out of spec. when we PPAP the parts the whole die goes back to the manufacturer to be fixed or replaced.

As dies age, they will inevitably get less consistent, but we run in-process CMM checks on every part.  If we see dimensions going out of spec. we will stop production and pull the die out to repair it.  We do simple repairs in-house. and major repairs go back to the manufacturer.   We try to make sure the parts are good throughout the process and not just when they leave our dock.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
On 5/9/2022 at 6:20 AM, So not a Guru said:

@CNCJACK

You can do this with your Faro arm as well.

WTH? We can't tag a user, using the @name format, in the conversation anymore?

I like the forum's new format less & less with every post.

How do you go about using the faro arm to do this? 

On 5/10/2022 at 9:49 AM, Jespertech said:

Glad to know I'm not the only one. 

i usually dont even program ahead anymore until i get the material in my hands. too many wasted hours reprogramming lol

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, CNCZACK said:

How do you go about using the faro arm to do this? 

What software do you use with your Faro?

I know that both PCDIMIS & Verisurf allow you to create a point cloud from your part. Verisurf also will calculate a "best fit" for alignment purposes as well.  I haven't used PCDIMIS for years, so I don't remember if it also has a best fit function.

You can then import the point cloud into Mastercam.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, So not a Guru said:

What software do you use with your Faro?

I know that both PCDIMIS & Verisurf allow you to create a point cloud from your part. Verisurf also will calculate a "best fit" for alignment purposes as well.  I haven't used PCDIMIS for years, so I don't remember if it also has a best fit function.

All the Software have Best Fit the difference will be what are the way in which you can weight the process and methods to control them relative to programming your part. Verisurf living and breathing in Mastercam is the best of everything a shop could ever need doing Machining. Digital Twin gets thrown around all the time. Verisurf was ahead of the curve by 25 years simulating the CMM inside of V9 live. Verisurf still does that and you don't need Moduleworks to simulate the machines it is live real time inside of the Mastercam software no added software like Moduleworks needed. CNC Software missed the boat not adding Verisurf to the main software and using their processes to simulate machines and other devices. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

Join us!

eMastercam - your online source for all things Mastercam.

Together, we are the strongest Mastercam community on the web with over 56,000 members, and our online store offers a wide selection of training materials for all applications and skill levels.

Follow us

×
×
  • Create New...