3d Contour & OptiRough

[CNCZACK]

Im working on a mill off for out 4th axis mill. It uses an A axis located on the right of the table. Im using OptiRough for this tool path. Ive created some surfaces to drive the toolpath. If you look on level 101 that would be my finished part. level 100 is the material I am starting with. level 200 are the surfaces I created and level 102 is the unrolled geometry. So ive got 2 questions with this part. Ive been told previously that I cant use Opti rough with axis substitution, does anyone have any experience with this? the only way i can test it is to go through a full set up. I dont see why it would not work. And this seems to be my only option for this part unless I use standard dynamic and come in the with a 3d contour following. 

Also on the 3D contour, not sure what im not doing right but im trying to use a .5 ball on this tp but I cant seem to get the geometry or something just right. any suggestions would help 

rotary.mcam

[crazy^millman]

21 minutes ago, CNCZACK said:

Im working on a mill off for out 4th axis mill. It uses an A axis located on the right of the table. Im using OptiRough for this tool path. Ive created some surfaces to drive the toolpath. If you look on level 101 that would be my finished part. level 100 is the material I am starting with. level 200 are the surfaces I created and level 102 is the unrolled geometry. So ive got 2 questions with this part. Ive been told previously that I cant use Opti rough with axis substitution, does anyone have any experience with this? the only way i can test it is to go through a full set up. I dont see why it would not work. And this seems to be my only option for this part unless I use standard dynamic and come in the with a 3d contour following. 

Also on the 3D contour, not sure what im not doing right but im trying to use a .5 ball on this tp but I cant seem to get the geometry or something just right. any suggestions would help 

rotary.mcam 2.52 MB · 0 downloads

Not sure who told you you couldn't use Axis sub in Opti-Rough I do it all the time.

In the backplot settings make sure Simulate Axis Sub and Simulate Rotary Axis are checked.

[CNCZACK]

15 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

Not sure who told you you couldn't use Axis sub in Opti-Rough I do it all the time.

In the backplot settings make sure Simulate Axis Sub and Simulate Rotary Axis are checked.

By my reseller a few months back. Ron could look look at my 3d contour, i cant seem to get that right and not sure what i might be doing wrong. Do you have suggested improvements on my optirough as well? 

[crazy^millman]

52 minutes ago, CNCZACK said:

By my reseller a few months back. Ron could look look at my 3d contour, i cant seem to get that right and not sure what i might be doing wrong. Do you have suggested improvements on my optirough as well? 

I looked at the 3D Contour and when I turned on the setting I told you in backplot it was cutting the shape to a point. If you are referring to it not being deep enough then just adjust your depth settings to account for the difference from the chain you selected to the place you want to be for just the straight section. The other problem is the transition of the shape you are trying to wrap. The wrap shape must be flat and trying to machine that feature like you are with axis sub is not the correct way to go about it. There are not many Axis sub processes that will allow you to go about it that way anymore. In older version we could cut a shape like this, but not sure what version the old school toolpaths and new one we lost the unroll capabilities. The Axis sub has been tore up for some time forcing anyone thinking about cutting a shape like this to use multiaxis toolpaths. You are best to use back plane and just 3+1 the shape with a long tool. I would just stand the part up and cut that shape with the side of an endmill and call it a day and quit trying to use anything to cut in a 4 axis since it has the sharp corners.

Standing up then use 2D dynamic to rough and the Contour to finish. A basic 2D contour for that shape with Axis sub would rough it just finish.

[CNCZACK]

1 hour ago, crazy^millman said:

I looked at the 3D Contour and when I turned on the setting I told you in backplot it was cutting the shape to a point. If you are referring to it not being deep enough then just adjust your depth settings to account for the difference from the chain you selected to the place you want to be for just the straight section. The other problem is the transition of the shape you are trying to wrap. The wrap shape must be flat and trying to machine that feature like you are with axis sub is not the correct way to go about it. There are not many Axis sub processes that will allow you to go about it that way anymore. In older version we could cut a shape like this, but not sure what version the old school toolpaths and new one we lost the unroll capabilities. The Axis sub has been tore up for some time forcing anyone thinking about cutting a shape like this to use multiaxis toolpaths. You are best to use back plane and just 3+1 the shape with a long tool. I would just stand the part up and cut that shape with the side of an endmill and call it a day and quit trying to use anything to cut in a 4 axis since it has the sharp corners.

I see what you are saying. with using 3+1 are you suggesting standing the part up and cutting around it?  the only issue is the part is 6 inches long and every other ring would have to be cut in order to achieve the part. it will be heat treated to 50rc after and wont be machanable at that point 

[crazy^millman]

14 minutes ago, CNCZACK said:

I see what you are saying. with using 3+1 are you suggesting standing the part up and cutting around it?  the only issue is the part is 6 inches long and every other ring would have to be cut in order to achieve the part. it will be heat treated to 50rc after and wont be machanable at that point 

You can machine 50RC all day long who said you could not. I would rough before heat treat then come back after heat treat and finish machine that shape. Make a fixture to hold each ring and then it will be easy.

[CNCZACK]

3 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

You can machine 50RC all day long who said you could not. 

 

Our tooling lol! i might give that a try 

 

[crazy^millman]

39 minutes ago, CNCZACK said:

 

Sorry to say you are using the wrong tooling then. Get a hold of your local tool rep and have them come in and spec out what you need to cut what you are cutting.

[JParis]

17 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

Sorry to say you are using the wrong tooling then. Get a hold of your local tool rep and have them come in and spec out what you need to cut what you are cutting.

Wait....you mean cheap MSC tooling won't get the job done?

lol

Ask me how I know  :)

Spot on Ron, spot on!

[crazy^millman]

59 minutes ago, JParis said:

Wait....you mean cheap MSC tooling won't get the job done?

lol

Ask me how I know  :)

Spot on Ron, spot on!

Probably one of the same ways I know.

I was working in a Tool and Die shop about 30 years ago. Owner hands me these cheap Chinese made endmills to cut some mold inserts pockets on a internal tube bar. I burned up 4 endmills in less that 5 minutes trying to cut the D-2 tool steel. I was being cussed out told how stupid I was for running them to fast. I had already looked at the endmills and could see they were not ground correctly and the cutting edge was lower than the outside grind on the endmills. The owner and the shop foreman are going to teach me how to use them correctly. They call the whole shop over to make me look bad. The shop foreman throws an endmill in and within 5 seconds burns it up. Looks at me and realized real quick I knew what was going on. He then starts getting and ear full from the owner. The owner pushes him out of the way and is going to show us all how it is done. He is a 30 year tool and die maker and we are just a bunch of idiots. I am just smirking and that is pissing him off even more. He throws an endmill in there and burns it up. Then proceeds to use 10 more endmills burning them up. He is cussing and yelling and I grab one out of the old endmill buckets said hear try this one. He puts in and it starts cutting. Everyone stops and just looks at me wondering what in the world is going on. I said like I have been trying to tell you since you handed me these crappy endmills they are made wrong. I learned how to grind endmills and made my own cutting tools in trade school. This tool is made wrong it will never cut, but you didn't want to listen to me because i am just some know it all kid. Then he stopped grabbed a loupe and sees it. He just walked off and the shop foreman gave me a brand new premium endmill I originally asked for.

[JParis]

8 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

Probably one of the same ways I know.

I was working in a Tool and Die shop about 30 years ago. Owner hands me these cheap Chinese made endmills to cut some mold inserts pockets on a internal tube bar. I burned up 4 endmills in less that 5 minutes trying to cut the D-2 tool steel. I was being cussed out told how stupid I was for running them to fast. I had already looked at the endmills and could see they were not ground correctly and the cutting edge was lower than the outside grind on the endmills. The owner and the shop foreman are going to teach me how to use them correctly. They call the whole shop over to make me look bad. The shop foreman throws an endmill in and within 5 seconds burns it up. Looks at me and realized real quick I knew what was going on. He then starts getting and ear full from the owner. The owner pushes him out of the way and is going to show us all how it is done. He is a 30 year tool and die maker and we are just a bunch of idiots. I am just smirking and that is pissing him off even more so he throws and endmill in there and burns it up and then proceeds to use 10 more endmills burning them up. He is cussing and yelling and I grab one out of the old endmill buckets and said hear try this one. He puts in and it starts cutting. Everyone stops and just looks at me and goes what in the world is going on. I said like I have been trying to tell you since you handed me these crappy endmills they are made wrong. I learned how to grind endmills and made my own cutting tools in trade school. This tool is made wrong it will never cut, but you didn't want to listen to me because i am just some know it all kid. Then he stopped grabbed a loupe and sees it. He just walked off and the shop foreman gave me a brand new premium endmill I originally asked for.

Similar....nearly got into a fist fight with a dumbass owner and his programming cousin...

Deep hole drilling in Titanium....cheap xxxx HSS drills.....using his speeds & feeds, I'm burning up a drill less than every part.....wouldn't hear of it, his HSS drills were going to work fine...

I had a worm but touched up carbide drill in my box......after adjusting the speeds & feeds up, that drill ran the next 30 parts....

I was then accused of sabotaging to HSS drills numbers, which even after they compared to original, they were unchanged.....I told him his cousin was a dumbass......well, mayhem ensued, I walked out to my car, drove home, came back with my truck and rolled my toolboxes out....told them to go "F" themselves...

Took the rest of the week off, started a new job the following Monday...

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

You can't teach someone who doesn't want to learn.

[neurosis]

You can lead someone to tools, but you can't make them use them?  

Are we doing cliche's? :D

[nickbe10]

1 hour ago, Matthew Hajicek - Singularity said:

You can't teach someone who doesn't want to learn.

And it is impossible to help anyone....who knows everything already.

By definition.

[crazy^millman]

58 minutes ago, nickbe10 said:

And it is impossible to help anyone....who knows everything already.

By definition.

Why I don't like the word expert, Guru or the man thrown my way. I run into many situations where I think I am correct on an issue that comes up, but I will apologize upfront and say let me look into. I then will collect the needed information to show I am indeed correct and present it. Many times people will be oh yeah okay, but even then you got those that no matter what they are right and you're wrong. That happens I just try to say thank you and have a good day. I am wrong also I will then do what I can to correct the issue and make it right. I am human just like anyone and make mistakes and if you go around with that kind of arrogance trust me sooner or later you will be eating some humble pie.