How Intuitive is Mastercam for Someone Who has Never Used it in the Industry?

[Serath]

Hey all,

I don't even know if that's the right way to phrase the questions I have. I've worked as a CNC operator off-and-on for 5 years in total, and have very little programming experience. I'm trying to break into the programming side of things because it interests me and I think I could be good at it. I'm going through the tutorial lessons Mastercam provides, and have noticed the instructors will do things in their tutorials like enabling multipass and depth cuts, adjusting speeds and feeds, and cycling between plunge, ramp, etc, and offering no explanation why. I know what the terms mean, but I do not understand when/why to use them. My questions are: do things like that just come with time and experience? For someone just getting into the industry, is it expected that they have those answers already? What are the factors to consider when making the decision to use those kinds of features? I have no idea if this makes sense to any of you, buy any help/advice would be much appreciated.

[Leon82]

Once you draw your part you can draw your stock size and get an idea of how mach material you will have to remove. 

You will have to rely on the machine shop experience to determine how much a certain cutter can remove without breaking. 

 

 

Once you get the basics it will become easier 

[cncappsjames]

There's some VERY basic guidelines for metal removal in the tool cutting data available from the tooling vendor. You'll have a max depth of cut (DOC) value, and you'll have different feeds and speeds depending on the type of cutting you're doing; channel cut, profile cut, high sped type (large DOC, shallow radial engagement, etc...

They are basic guidelines and do not take into account setup rigidity or lack thereof.

Experience is definitely your friend here. Those things aren't explained in the tutorial because there are far too many variables to cover.

[JParis]

As a "general" rule....people without at least a decent amount of on machine experience, do not make good programmers...

Spend some more time at the machine so you start to understand when and why DOC's & Multi-passes are used....why different styles of cutters use different speeds & feeds, how to make sure you create a rigid setup...how the distance that you still a tool out of a holder affects the cutting reliability....there are a lot of things on that side you should at the very least have a good grasp on...

Being a good programmer isn't about running the software....being a good programmer is about understanding process, how to create them and when to use which process, understanding machining order, creating fixtures, programs run reliably to create features and hit tolerances repetitively and directions & instructions that are rock solid and clear to follow...

[crazy^millman]

I use this explanation when teaching someone Negative, Neutral and Positive cutting edges. If you think of metal you probably don't think of it as dirty, but it is from the ground. When we thinking of machining each material as made up of different elements and with different combinations of them creates the characteristics along with properties each has. When we need to dig a hole in the ground depending on the type of soil this can be a easier or harder task. With a spade bit shovel if we take it and put it into the ground at a 90 degree angle we are using what would be equivalent to a neutral cutting tool. The amount of force it takes to drag it forward is one aspect of the cutting involved to remove the dirt from the hole we are trying to dig. The other part of that is what happens to the ground before and after area we have removed the dirt from the hole? The firmer the solid the less movement we get around it, but the more the impact spreads.. The softer the solid the lass the area is effected, but we have back filling happening. We take the shovel and move it back at a -45 degree angle to drag forward how much force is needed to make that happen? The other part of that is what does this do the ground as we exert that much force on it? The ground starts the break up and the area we are impacting with that amount of force propagates throughout. This is what a Negative style tool is doing when it is cutting almost any material. The last one is a positive style cutting tool or edge. If we take the shovel and take small passes removing small amount of material we can go much faster and have less effect of the soil where we are doing this. It seems like a simple concept, but all machining can be thought about this way.

The physics of machining is not a standard process and there are so many factors that go into machining a part. You're an operator do you know what every M and G code on the machines you are runnign mean and do? Have you learned what each tool is doing on every part you are cutting? Have you looked up what is the recommend speeds and feed for each tool currently doing the part your are running? What do the different holder do and how are the part of the machining process? What role does work holding play in how and what you are doing? Do you understand what each axis on the machine is doing and how their relationship are important? What is the spindle doing and what the tool cutting tell you when you hear it making a cut in different materials? The art of machining is as important as the science of it. The math of what we do is important as the comprehension of the language it tells us. Machining and programming are not just making a part. Like others have said what is the process of manufacturing a part? Learning doesn't start with running the machine. It starts with understanding what the machine is capable of and pushing it beyond what  anyone else thinks is possible. Respect the equipment you are running and know your limits, but don't limit yourself by what others tell you that are afraid to think out of the box. We have always done it this way makes me cringe every time I hear it. Yes there are certain things we must do in machining to create certain features that is the science of machining, but getting material off a part has changed so much in the last 30 years is blows my mind constantly.

Knowledge is something no one can take away from you. I am always observing and watching others when I am in a shop helping a customer. I stop and share my knowledge teaching others. By teaching what we know and going over basics it helps me remember why they are important. Investing in yourself is one part of growing your abilities like you are doing and learning, but we are all different. We all learn differently and have differing abilities. Wish I could tell you it is easy as picking up this one book or taking this one class or going to this certain youtube channel and you will be there in no time, but I cannot say that. I have been in this profession over 35 years and still learning. I still get my butt handed to me on a project. I still make mistakes and I am not perfect. I don't know it all and never will. That is one piece of advice I share with anyone. Be very concerned with someone who never makes mistakes and it perfect. They are either not doing anything or blaming someone else for their mistakes. The person who know it all is so full of themselves they are hard to work with and normally never want to share their knowledge. It is normally their way or the highway and get stuck in a mindset of doing things that hurts most places they get settled into.

On this forum sweat equity is what will show others you're serious about becoming a programmer. You get stuck and have tried 10 different way then psot up the file with your ten attempts. I send customers files all the time with 20 or 30 toolpaths that were not to my liking. Those that have learned that is my way to teach them things appreciate it. The new customers who think I am some expert laugh and ask why do you put those in the file. I tell them that was my attempts to get what I wanted. They failed so I tried other way to make it happen. Since I learned something from it I like to pass it on. Many get it, but a few don't care to see them so I make sure for those customers I send them clean and predestine files.

Documentation was touched on, but knowing what you know and how you think means nothing to anyone else if they cannot follow your work. Know it all programmer or hiders as I call them love to make their work hard to follow. Putting everything on one level or expecting people to read their mind like they the only most important person in the world. Guess what none of us are irreplaceable. What they don't get it they are hurting themselves as much as who they are working for. They are selfish and short sighted. Levels and naming your operations so someone else can follow what you're programing is important if you are programming for others. You are programming for yourself then do what works for you, but if you are programming for anyone else then what they need is more important of what you think they need, Go out and talk to them ask question and watch they do. See how they use information and if they come back after you have provided what they asked for then hold them accountable to do their job. Nothing drives me more crazy than spedning hours making good setup documentation and tools list and no one bothers to even ready any of it and then wonder why thing went wrong.

Sorry, but felt inspired this morning to share and hopefully it is helpful.

[JParis]

5 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

You are programming for yourself then do what works for you,

Ron, I'll disagree with this one small part...

Even "if" you're programming for yourself.....name and document everything....why?  Well, becasue you may not always be programming for yourself and having created and using established habits makes it all so much easier..

 

Other than that

[crazy^millman]

1 minute ago, JParis said:

Ron, I'll disagree with this one small part...

Even "if" you're programming for yourself.....name and document everything....why?  Well, becasue you may not always be programming for yourself and having created and using established habits makes it all so much easier..

 

Other than that

I was already past the keeping a majority of people's attention, but yes I agree 100%.

[RaiderX]

if i am understanding the op. you need to build a basic understanding of friction and forces taking place in machining. running a CNC does not always lend to understanding this.

If you have access to a bridge port and hand full of sacrafitial cutters-material I would start there and dont be afraid. 

and or if doing lathe work do the same on a manual lathe.

 

JM2C

[AGreen5]

I think a lot of video tutorials will be neccessary to watch.  Mastercam is not natively intuitive, it doesn't prompt the user, it doesn't particularly suggest anything.  

There are some simple rules.  I think 2% of diameter is a pretty decent guideline for a finish wall stepover.  On floors it seems .005 is a pretty decent value under .375 cutter diameter.  Most high quality CNC machines that aren't old can work with microlifts of .004 during dynamic cutting.  Arc Filters set to half the finish stock allowance and with minimum arcs set as high as reasonably possible generally seems to reduce misc lines of code reasonably well.  Machines with AICCII and machining condition select will generally cut faster if the arcs are converted to lines, but if you have a low numbered control (OI) (I series) the number of lines of code is very important to be minimal so sometimes you have to violate that rule because Fanuc I series controls suck and are terrifically slow.  I have seen 80 second code for a 31I run 180 seconds in an I series machine.  

In my experience, in the relm of 1-1.5X D depth of cut, dynamic paths in stainless like to be around 15% engagement in order to optimize speed and stability.  If you go lower on depth like 1/2D you may find 25% is acceptable and faster.  

Speed and feed recommendations from the manufacturer are a good guideline, make sure to click RCTF on the dynamic paths.  

Anyway those are some guidelines that will probably help you assimilate to functional use of the software.  DON'T GUESS FEEDS AND SPEEDS.  That's sloppy, lazy and your program will be built on a foundation of sand.