Locked planes broken when opening in 2023

[Leon82]

I had a file in 2020 with 5 locked planes. When I opened it in 2023the planes were still locked but 160degrees off. I had to lock them because I had to modify my 5axis home for the dovetail fixtures we modified and it would keep reverting the planes.

 

They also have this link symbol now.

[Chally72]

Can you send me the file?  [email protected]

If you ever right-clicked on a plane in Mastercam 2021 and earlier and hit Create Relative as a method to create new custom planes, those planes were linked in the background, though we didn't have an icon to tell you that in the past. If you generated a Report on the plane (right-click, Report) you'd be able to see the interdependencies. 

The Link symbol appearing when you bring it into 2023 suggests that they were indeed tied together, and perhaps the Lock is not being applied at the right point in the process when you migrate the file into 2023 and it tries to figure out all the associations and interdependency rules.

 

[Leon82]

I may have made relative planes. I will try to make a file but our internet is restricted now so I'll have to figure something out.

[MrFish]

10 hours ago, Chally72 said:

Can you send me the file?  [email protected]

If you ever right-clicked on a plane in Mastercam 2021 and earlier and hit Create Relative as a method to create new custom planes, those planes were linked in the background, though we didn't have an icon to tell you that in the past. If you generated a Report on the plane (right-click, Report) you'd be able to see the interdependencies. 

The Link symbol appearing when you bring it into 2023 suggests that they were indeed tied together, and perhaps the Lock is not being applied at the right point in the process when you migrate the file into 2023 and it tries to figure out all the associations and interdependency rules.

 

Sorry to hijack, but is their a switch to alter this linking function to default to off  ?

[crazy^millman]

9 hours ago, MrFish said:

Sorry to hijack, but is their a switch to alter this linking function to default to off  ?

Are you referring to the process of using the create planes relative too? The default is off for every plane created as far is I know with the exception of relative to. Problem was in some previous version they were linked when planes were created this way. You would move the base planes and those planes would follow. There was no warning or anything for the user to know this so people started locking planes down as a prevention to that.

[Leon82]

You can right click edit and unlink which is what I did.

 

That was the only time I've used that feature and picked the worst application for it 

[CEMENTHEAD]

5 hours ago, crazy^millman said:

create planes relative to

That sounds super risky.  Scared to even think of doing that. 

 

[Chally72]

I made an extensive video on plane linking and associativity. Give me a day or two and I can link it here- for some reason it isn't up on our Youtube right now.

[crazy^millman]

43 minutes ago, CEMENTHEAD said:

That sounds super risky.  Scared to even think of doing that. 

 

I use it all the time and it a great thing for HMC and 5 Axis work. I have started teaching linking planes on 5 Axis projects and like the direction that is heading. Now that we have a better idea what the behavior is and what the inputs and output of the process are it makes it easier to control and understand what is going on. Best decision made years ago was to lock the base planes down and prevent them from being edited. The math process for the software uses them for just about everything is does. It needed a base point of reference to link and work everything out. When that process we allowed to float before that changes was made we had all kind of posting a plane issues. They locked down the base planes and all those problems went away. Focus has been on the planes for man version now and it will only get better. Once we get grouping ability added to the Planes manager like we have in the Toolpaths and Solids Manager then things will allow users to control the look and feel of the work they are doing. Right now planes is still a free for all when working with any Mutliaxis file. Just do an MT project and see you start off with 12-20 additional planes added just to program in that environment with no control over them and you see real quick how clunky and unmanageable planes are for new and average programmers. Even experienced Multiaxis programmers struggle with tracking and working with planes. Linking the planes allow the use to know at least batch them together in a way that if something changes everything related to that group can be managed a lot better than it was in the past. Grouping them like we can in the Toolpath Manager has to be the next logical step in the plane process. I understand other Software may not use planes and magically works in multiaxis situations, but as a math nerd I like having the planes for visual reference.

Going through a deep dive into CYCLE800 and G68.2 issues with several different customers and machine right now. I am breaking out math and methods I haven't needed or used in over 20 years. Having the planes linked for OP1,OP2 and OP3 or Fixtures for these projects is a huge time saver.

2 minutes ago, Chally72 said:

I made an extensive video on plane linking and associativity. Give me a day or two and I can link it here- for some reason it isn't up on our Youtube right now.

That ability was removed from this website. AFAIK you can only put up the URL and people now have to copy the URL into a browser to see anything external anymore. HTML, and other codes are also not allowed to try to hack a way into doing it yes I have tried and couldn't get them to work.

[AHarrison1]

16 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

That ability was removed from this website. AFAIK you can only put up the URL and people now have to copy the URL into a browser to see anything external anymore. HTML, and other codes are also not allowed to try to hack a way into doing it yes I have tried and couldn't get them to work.

You can also highlight address right click and 3rd option down 'go to HTTP.....'

[Chally72]

34 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

I use it all the time and it a great thing for HMC and 5 Axis work. I have started teaching linking planes on 5 Axis projects and like the direction that is heading. Now that we have a better idea what the behavior is and what the inputs and output of the process are it makes it easier to control and understand what is going on. Best decision made years ago was to lock the base planes down and prevent them from being edited. The math process for the software uses them for just about everything is does. It needed a base point of reference to link and work everything out. When that process we allowed to float before that changes was made we had all kind of posting a plane issues. They locked down the base planes and all those problems went away. Focus has been on the planes for man version now and it will only get better. Once we get grouping ability added to the Planes manager like we have in the Toolpaths and Solids Manager then things will allow users to control the look and feel of the work they are doing. Right now planes is still a free for all when working with any Mutliaxis file. Just do an MT project and see you start off with 12-20 additional planes added just to program in that environment with no control over them and you see real quick how clunky and unmanageable planes are for new and average programmers. Even experienced Multiaxis programmers struggle with tracking and working with planes. Linking the planes allow the use to know at least batch them together in a way that if something changes everything related to that group can be managed a lot better than it was in the past. Grouping them like we can in the Toolpath Manager has to be the next logical step in the plane process. I understand other Software may not use planes and magically works in multiaxis situations, but as a math nerd I like having the planes for visual reference.

Going through a deep dive into CYCLE800 and G68.2 issues with several different customers and machine right now. I am breaking out math and methods I haven't needed or used in over 20 years. Having the planes linked for OP1,OP2 and OP3 or Fixtures for these projects is a huge time saver.

That ability was removed from this website. AFAIK you can only put up the URL and people now have to copy the URL into a browser to see anything external anymore. HTML, and other codes are also not allowed to try to hack a way into doing it yes I have tried and couldn't get them to work.

That's unfortunate, as embedded videos worked really well here.

[So not a Guru]

1 hour ago, Chally72 said:

That's unfortunate, as embedded videos worked really well here.

Agreed

[Chally72]

Well, it was more than "A day or two", but here's that plane linking video. Hope this helps!

 

https://youtu.be/BCvvdrp0ahw

[crazy^millman]

58 minutes ago, Chally72 said:

Well, it was more than "A day or two", but here's that plane linking video. Hope this helps!

 

https://youtu.be/BCvvdrp0ahw

Dylan, thank you for the Video. I wish you would have touched on Work Offsets and setting them before using the linking and relative to process in the video.

[Chally72]

58 minutes ago, crazy^millman said:

Dylan, thank you for the Video. I wish you would have touched on Work Offsets and setting them before using the linking and relative to process in the video.

Quite honestly, the rules behind the behavior of work offsets when using a mix of Automatic and Manual planes, across both WCS and Toolplanes, is deserving of its own 10-15 minute video. 

There's a reason most 5 axis posts have a switch that says something to the effect of "Override Mastercam offset and always use G5X"

[crazy^millman]

11 minutes ago, Chally72 said:

Quite honestly, the rules behind the behavior of work offsets when using a mix of Automatic and Manual planes, across both WCS and Toolplanes, is deserving of its own 10-15 minute video. 

There's a reason most 5 axis posts have a switch that says something to the effect of "Override Mastercam offset and always use G5X"

Agreed, but the post process to address the issue is a dumbing down of the true capability of 5 Axis machining. I can think of only one of our 5 Axis customers using that for their programming process. After we teach them the power and benefits on their machines of using the different workoffsets and planes for programming they all agree extremely beneficially and it is quickly adopted.

Again thank you for the videos and effort put to help Mastercam users.