DMG CTX BETA 1250 TC 4A

[scottm085]

Has anyone out there had any success using mill/turn to post out usable code for a two channel CTX (Upper B axis spindle, lower turret) using Siemens structured programming? We are having a real hard time getting Mastercam to play nice with "structured programming" and was curious to know if anyone has any information or experience using the software to post out usable code? 

[JParis]

Are you trying to program using a lathe post or do you have the Mill/Turn add-on?

BIG difference betwen the 2

[crazy^millman]

5 minutes ago, scottm085 said:

Has anyone out there had any success using mill/turn to post out usable code for a two channel CTX (Upper B axis spindle, lower turret) using Siemens structured programming? We are having a real hard time getting Mastercam to play nice with "structured programming" and was curious to know if anyone has any information or experience using the software to post out usable code? 

 

I will plead ignorance here so excuse me for asking. What do you mean by "structured programming" ? Can you post some examples of this and what you have done to try to achieve this task?

[scottm085]

We are using the Mill/Turn add on.

Structured programming, from what I am understanding, splits up the posted code into separate file folders inside the controller. There are separate files for your machine variables, individual tool paths, transfer ops, and a few others that I can't remember offhand. According to our DMG apps guy when using structured programming there needs to be an equal number of operations on each channel for it to work. This means if I have an op to machine with the upper spindle, I need to sync it to an op on the lower turret, even if it is not doing anything, for example a milling operation with the spindle would have to be synced to a turret park on the lower turret if the turret is not currently cutting.

We took shipment of the machine about a week ago and have been trying to get our post dialed in with not a lot of luck. Mainly, I was hoping to get in contact with someone who may have delt with this before and pick there brain a bit.

So far, the only thing we can get to somewhat work is creating a turret park operation after each op and then syncing them together 1 to 1 in the sync manager. Kinda painful...

[crazy^millman]

The DMG Apps guys who recommend this method of programming should be the one guiding you on how to implement it. They should have robust examples and methods for you to follow!!! What did they provide you with for this process? This is the first I am hearing of such a method for these machines or controls. Mastercam's default method is the ISO approved NC code output process and unless the reseller was told up front this was going to be the requirement for posting code for this machine then I suspect there might be a fair amount of development needed to break out the data into sub data groups that will be compliant with the required structure needed to support this process.

Mark are you around to chime in on this topic?

[JParis]

@?Mark

[JoshC]

Since the Tech Exchange has some Mill Turn Machine enviroments avalable for the machine then the Mill Turn environment (post, simulation, etc.)  should be proven out already. You would need to work through your Local Reseller to inquire about costs, training, etc. but since im seeing these on our mastercam tech exchange and as shown in the image below it likely has been a proven out machine / simulation otherwise its likely being proven out by a mastercam team somewhere since its already listed. 

[scottm085]

reseller is here right now... still trying to figure it out.

[crazy^millman]

13 minutes ago, scottm085 said:

reseller is here right now... still trying to figure it out.

Yeah I would be also since again this the first time I have even heard or seen such a thing.

Curious when you do it the tried, trued and proven way with NC code what happens?

[scottm085]

The machine will run traditionally formatted code. But for support from DMG we are basically being told that if we don't use the structured program method, we may not get technical support. Apparently, it is the way they were designed to run and is how they do it in Germany. There are many positives to structured programming and think it will be useful once figured out. There just doesn't seem to be an easy way to program this machine like you would a traditional mill/turn. We also have an integrated robot with the machine and is part of the reason we want to program it how it is intended.

[crazy^millman]

1 hour ago, scottm085 said:

The machine will run traditionally formatted code. But for support from DMG we are basically being told that if we don't use the structured program method, we may not get technical support. Apparently, it is the way they were designed to run and is how they do it in Germany. There are many positives to structured programming and think it will be useful once figured out. There just doesn't seem to be an easy way to program this machine like you would a traditional mill/turn. We also have an integrated robot with the machine and is part of the reason we want to program it how it is intended.

May not and Will not are too completely different things. Per the PO issued to DMG was one of the conditions they dictated your programming method for using the machine and Robot? If that is the case then part of that should have been a post supplied by them that works with your current CAM system to meet those rigid programming requirements. Not trying to a pain here, but seems to many times people love to throw out their method as the only way and then once you dig into things you learn it is not the only way to accomplish the task and get the job done. Might need to reach out above that AE's and talk to his boss and get more information.

If the terms of the sale hinged around this being a requirement and no one from your company was aware of this then you may have a breach of contract argument about this stipulation for the may not comment being throw out by the AE.

[Paul Decelles]

The Mill-Turn machine environment for Mastercam supports the structured programming and was developed in Germany.  I would recommend that your reseller work with the machine development team here at CNC to ensure that the solution is configured properly for your machine and that there is support in place as you learn how to run the machine and how to program it in Mastercam.

[cncappsjames]

7 hours ago, scottm085 said:

...According to our DMG apps guy when using structured programming there needs to be an equal number of operations on each channel for it to work. ...

 

So far, the only thing we can get to somewhat work is creating a turret park operation after each op and then syncing them together 1 to 1 in the sync manager

. Kinda painful...

Yeah.. that's like A LOT of extra work for no good reason. Or, at least no good reason I can come up with. I've run plenty of mult-tasking lathes over the years and NONE had that same number of ops per channel restriction. FOlders for MACROs, settings, etc... that's a little on the cool side I think. As long as it's logical to manage.

I wonder what the reasoning is...

[crazy^millman]

3 hours ago, Paul Decelles from CNC Software said:

The Mill-Turn machine environment for Mastercam supports the structured programming and was developed in Germany.  I would recommend that your reseller work with the machine development team here at CNC to ensure that the solution is configured properly for your machine and that there is support in place as you learn how to run the machine and how to program it in Mastercam.

Paul thank you for chiming in an give some context.

[Chris In-House Solutions]

I worked with a local customer who had this machine and the Mill-Turn product.  The structure code is very different from .mpf Siemens code.  Once you get things figured out with the machine/programming the structure code benefits are large.   Its definitely a learning curve though. 

Good luck and have fun learning the machine/code.  

[scottm085]

Thanks for the responses, at least it seems that there are some folks out there who have at least heard of structured programming. There doesn't seem to be many programming examples or tutorials I have come across online other than a small bit of information in the mill/turn machine documentation. There is going to be a bit of trial and error to get comfortable with this.