Maintenance

[part_timer]

Help, I'm getting flak, and lots of it. I'm trying to get my coworkers off my back on the subject of maintenance and no version X. The absence of any real benefit (to us) for the maintenance we pay is getting to be a pain in my @$$. I was part of the decision process and I'm starting to look like an idiot. Two years and $3000 for nothing (in their eyes) is asking alot from this shop and their letting me know it on a weekly basis. Any ideas on how to shut them up?

 

"When the going gets tough, the tough start drinking"

[Lars Christensen]

I know that the topic have been up here on the forum not long ago, you might want to read up on those, maybe you can pick a couple of good phrases you can throw back at them.

 

Lars

“Who would love to have Mcam 9 and be on Maint.

[mayday]

quote:

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The absence of any real benefit (to us) for the maintenance

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maybe you should ask to go Full_Time

really, you could back up to sept release or even Mar release. you will quickly remember the bugs that where fixed and the enhancements you lost. then show them what you have.

[Zero]

If Im not mistaken, FZT was in one of the 1st maitenance releases, which dramaticly decreases the ammount of time it takes to process many of the toolpaths....Without you can pretty much double the ammount of time it takes for most toolpaths to process

[CAM-mando]

there is a section in the new mastercam notes that overviews the justification by highlighting the enhancements of the MR's.

 

My suggestion, if you are getting heat already, don't roll out X without giving it a thorough test drive.

[Dan Kintzel]

OK, let's see if I can break it down for you like I had to for my boss...

 

For $3000.00 thus far you have bought:

1. Maintenance Releases of software patches that should have been included before V9.1 was released. (We use Router primarily - not much has changed with the releases..hmmmm

 

2. Mastercam Art - Ooops! didn't get that either. Even though it is an "Add-On" and a "Major Release" to Mastercam!

 

****Quote from Mastercam website(Maintenance Page):---------------------------------------What can you expect from the Mastercam Maintenance Program? Major releases are included at no additional charge and will be available first to Mastercam Maintenance customers. You will also get access to Mastercam-supplied add-ons.

-------------------------------------------------

 

NOT! This one really steamed my employer when he saw all the adds for Art and asked when we can expect to see it since it was released after we purchased Maintenance.

 

 

3. Version X...or wait, I can show you a screenshot, I think...

 

 

4. And I can hand out these great new calendars, we received...OR wait they only sent us one, crap. Sorry Bill and Bob, even though we have seats for 3 on our Nethasp Sim, we still only get 1 calendar per SIM#. Guess I'll hang it above the crapper for all to see. (Next to the stack of new mouse pads and other "usual" swag we received after purchasing solids, nesting, engraving...oops! where are they? I guess they went right down the toilet with the $3000.00!))

 

Sorry fellow Forum Folks.. Flame If you Wish.

This is only what I had to answer to this week from my boss. I'm feeling really bad right now since I Love using Mastercam, But there are quite a few new brochures on my bosses desk for Other software next year. This is Sad.

 

I think Maintenance fell on its face this year with quite a few companies. Especially when your employer looks for the most bang for the buck and all you hear is a slight sizzle.

I think the Art release not included with maintenance was the death of CNC software at our company.

[Zero]

quote:

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I think Maintenance fell on its face this year with quite a few companies.

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yeah, Id have to agree with you there dude. And Im sure we'll both take a good bashing for it....but it just seems that all the promises that were made when we were told "you'll have to buy the maitanence to recieve anymore updates, but you'll also get this,this,this,this,and this"

have not been kept.

 

Does that make me want to go invest another 15 grand in other software? Absolutely not, that would be completely ridiculous after investing all that time, money and training into the software we already have and use quite effectively. Its just disappointing...MC used to be a cut above the rest because it didnt rely on these shady tactics that all "the other guys" were using, and still gave you a product that was equal or greater than all the other stuff. Now we get the same great product, but with all the sales pitching and truth bending and maitenance paying that goes along with "the other guy's software" with a "well everyone else is doin it" excuse

 

 

oh well...thats how it goes I guess

 

Just watch out that you dont fall victim to the "grass is always greener on the other side" menatlity, because I assure you, it most definately almost never is.

[Dan Kintzel]

Thanks for he shared thought Zero,

Like said, Mastercam is a great product and I hate the thought of having to learn new software all over again. But, if your company decides to waste money on new software - I can't persuade them to stick to Mastercam if my boss isn't happy.

I guess I'll go weep in my cubicle before we both get flamed!

[M. Anderson]

From the CamZone Newsletter 4th Qrt. 2004

 

quote:

---

The Value of Mastercam Maintenance

 

The Mastercam Maintenance program has been providing value and productivity to Mastercam

customers since its inception in September 2003. CNC Software has already provided several

maintenance updates for our Mastercam Maintenance customers.

---

Click here for more:

 

Maintenance Value?

 

Pitty of it all, from V6 to V8 - "MOST" of this would have been included in updates or point releases!

 

Guess not anymore!

 

What I find funny about the list is they even list file converter updates!

 

As I am really not a FAN of this or any "Maintenance Program" - I really question if CNC has lost track of what got them too where they are? I really hope not!

 

Oh well, guess I will join with you guy's in the DOG HOUSE, anyone got a extra doggie bone?

 

Later,

 

Mark

[J Coulston]

No one ever wants to part with any more money than they have to.

 

CNC should have been more forth coming with the release date of X when they were instituting the maintenance program.

 

I will gladly pay for anything that makes me more productive and gives me an advantage over you, my competition.

 

I pay maintenance for Jobboss, SolidWorks, my accounting software and my payroll software. Have you ever updated a Windows installation? You don’t go from 98 to XP for free. It is the cost of doing business and pretty much the standard procedure for most software packages. Just because it was one way in the past does not mean that it will continue on forever.

 

I am hoping that our wait will be rewarded with a stable program with a ton of new features.

 

I am sure that we will see a much larger benefit from maintenance once X is release and CNCs resources are reallocated. With Xs updated source code, it would seem to me that creating new processes and adapting to changes form partnering software, Solidwork, Inventor ect, would be implemented more quickly.

 

Still an optimist.

[Paul McGarr]

I agree to a lot of this and disagree to a lot of it also. I disagree with the idea that Mastercam Art should have been included. What, do you want mill, wire, and lathe also to be included?

 

On the other hand, I agree with the fact that there is really no big benefit to be had from maintenance. It's a game like all the rest. I think we all knew that when it came out.

 

Win98 to win XP isn't free. You're right. Windows update is though. Windows XP to xp SP1 to SP2, etc. Bug fixes, enhancements, security fixes, etc are all free. I bought XP and I will buy whatever replaces it. I will do it happily knowing that if there is a problem, it will be addressed, and it will be free.

 

On yet another hand, CNC Software is not Microsoft.

 

Just my thoughts. Don't get me wrong. I use Mastercam everyday. I love it. I have other choices too, but choose Mastercam. I don't pay the bills though.

 

Paul

[Greg Williams]

I feel your pain part timer,

 

quote:

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4. And I can hand out these great new calendars, we received...OR wait they only sent us one, crap. Sorry Bill and Bob, even though we have seats for 3 on our Nethasp Sim, we still only get 1 calendar per SIM#. Guess I'll hang it above the crapper for all to see.

---

We have 8 sims so I guess that means we can have 8 calenders, As long as we pay 8 lots of freight!

 

Free only to US customers

[part_timer]

Glad to see I'm not the only one in this situation. But I think I'm going to lose the battle as their arguments to the boss are making more and more sense to him. He just looks at me blankly when they discuss it with him on the floor, (as I act like I dropped something).

 

BUT, I'm still at it, plugging away at programming, spitting 'em out like 18 year old trailer park trash. Personally I think the systems great, but for the money and what they perceive as broken promises I'm catching flak. And if I hear one more DOS joke I'm gonna shove an end mill up one guys @$$, pull it out, then shove it down the throat of the other! But the discussion of switching is becoming serious and will be down right guaranteed if X isn't released soon, is full of bugs or isn't what it was promised to be. That's a promise my boss will keep, I guarantee it..

 

part timer

[CAM-mando]

What are they going to switch to ?

[PBpaul]

Believe it or not, we signed on for a year of maintenance last December not just to receive X but also because we thought we'd be bugging the heck out of our dealer with questions related to X and it was just the right/fair thing to do.

 

For whatever reason, X is not out and December is here again. Maybe the top dogs at Mastercam could consider extending maintenance. For a small shop, I agree that your's (and our's) is a tough pill to swallow.

 

Paul

[Harry Morse]

We have the same problem in our shop about maintenance costs and all we have seen are the glimpses of X. The boss says what have seen for this cash so far we said a few glimpses.

 

The high cost of maintenance is referred to around as being held to ransom. I posted recently about the crap verify because that is of concern and copped a lot of flak but the genuine ones in that thread agreed that yes “verify” does require a lot of work. One even said it was free so what do you expect for free well he must not be paying maintenance that guy maybe someone else is paying the ransom for him. We have been paying maintenance all this time and still no X and it certainly appeared that even after all this wait and all the money down the toilet as someone said the Verify for a start is the same in X so a 2 year wait and it is same but maybe a bit better well that’s real confidence building. If they have never made a Windows program before and the dos one we use has problems and shortcomings does anyone think for one minute the X is going to be fully useable from day one. Or is it going to have more bugs than a disposal dump.

 

Because of this cost the need for more output the extended delay and lack of information about the delivery of X we have just purchased Onecnc to get immediate better verification and more output to run our parts. We have to run unattended to compete we just have to get more hours out of the machines. To our amazement we started making programs day one and are extremely pleased with this software. This means that unless they do have something in this X that can justify the costs they won’t get continued maintenance from us.

[Tim Johnson]

quote:

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Win98 to win XP isn't free. You're right. Windows update is though. Windows XP to xp SP1 to SP2, etc. Bug fixes, enhancements, security fixes, etc are all free. I bought XP and I will buy whatever replaces it. I will do it happily knowing that if there is a problem, it will be addressed, and it will be free.

 

On yet another hand, CNC Software is not Microsoft.

---

The BIG difference is Microsoft sells 100s of millions of seats to almost every computer made. At tha absolute most MC will sell 100,000 seats and they sell more than any other CAM software. That's why high end application software uses the maintenance programs. How would you feel if MC called 9.1 version 10, Mr0304 version 11, ect? They have to pay their software engineers if they want to keep them. Actually the maintenance cost is minimal anyway. One seat of our Browne&Sharpe PCDMIS with no addons is approx. the same as 3 seats of MC level 3 with solids, moldplus and lathe.

[part_timer]

The fact they are not Microsoft makes sense in terms of upgrades, but bug fixes should be free. I didn't see bugs listed as part of the brochure or hear them as part of the sales pitch, did anyone else?

 

The opinion here is that they should fix the problems that exist and make them available at no cost and charge for the upgrades or add ons we need or want. After the other postings I'm starting to listen to my coworkers as they express their opinion that increased competiton affected their new sales dramatically, along with no real product improvements to sell as upgrades in a while is what caused the change to maintenance. By locking us in with $$$ they believe users like us won't switch as we have made even more of an investment in their product and will be patient for X. That's great for them, sucks for guys like me that were the ones that pushed for the purchase based on promises.

[Müřlıń®]

I am a non maintence customer.

 

I have gotten at least 2 if not 3 patches at no charge that fixed some things.

 

I am very happy Ver 9.1 SPS Mill level 3 with Solids. It preforms about as flawless as anyone could hope for from any software package.

 

I would like to have some of the speed enhansements they have made. When VER X gets debugged by the non beta testers, I will upgrade and have all the enhansements as well as ver X....

[Hardmill]

quote:

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I have gotten at least 2 if not 3 patches at no charge that fixed some things.

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Did it say anywhere you would'nt get bug fixes?

I know they said enhancements.

Anyone?Anyone? BEULLER?BEULLER?

 

 

PEACE

[Müřlıń®]

quote:

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Did it say anywhere you would'nt get bug fixes?

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Not that I know of........

 

And they did not give a release date for X either.

 

From what I can tell, Maintence customers got a hellovalot of enhancements that I did'nt get.

 

So, I cant see what all the complaining is about.

 

Maint customers get X and all the enhancements....just like CNC said....

 

Non maintence got bug fixes....

 

 

***shrugs***

[Hardmill]

quote:

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From what I can tell, Maintence customers got a hellovalot of enhancements that I did'nt get.

 

So, I cant see what all the complaining is about.

 

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Thats what I thought.

Sorry about your situation part-time, personally

i could'nt see my boss being all over my a$$ about

software he probably knows nothing about.

I'd tell him to stay in the office or I'd just move on.

But then again thats just me, always have been

always will be.

I'd let the boss buy the new software for the crying

co-workers. Just about all are light years away

from MC.

I know,I know verify "sucks", "Its crap", "blah,blah,blah," Different thread.

My boss understands that he pays me well to

do the job properly, and supplies me with needed

tools. PERIOD. He don't try to tell me how to do

my work, that is why he's paying me.

 

 

PEACE