FADAL vmc 4020 PRO AND CON

[Fig sign]

FADAL vmc 4020 WITH 4-TH AXIS and Fanuc controller

What is your opinion about this machine ?

Especially comparing to Haas

Task -24/7 general machinary ,25-30 % of time making 4 axis parts

Stainless steel ,4340,alluminium .

feeds up t0 3000 mm/min

Speeds up to 7000-8000 rpm 70 % of time .

What accuracy ,relability I will have ?

 

What con I see from the first gLance :

I may be wrong (jmho)

little Y 520 mm for X 1020 mm

Small z movement

only 20 tools

Small memory

Not built strong enough

pro -small price

[Guest]

Alex,

 

I know I am going to get beaten up over this cuz' I don't spend the money so I don't understand but, IMHO, they are a POS.

 

Plain and simple I don't care how much smoke some of these guys are going to blow.

 

Having run them and been around them for over 10 years what do I know anyway?

[Fig sign]

John ,saying POS you mean point of sail or

piece of **** ?

I am illiterate foreigner ,you know .

I used to run HAAS and we bought a couple 5x Haases

with trunion and happy with them

Maybe Fadal is "same bad " ?

i MEAN ,GOOD FOR MONEY ?

[3R!< W3NG3R]

I believe you gey what you pay for. IN the long run however, the better machines are cheaper when you consider down time and how long they last (also how much slower they get jobs done)

[Guest]

Yeah, Alex, I did mean piece of sh*t

 

At the end of the day can you get parts off, yes, you can. If you are comparing to HAAS, they are quite simliar in quality and reliability. It didn't used to be like that HAAS was better but they have fallen off IMO.

[Guest]

stainless and 4340 could be a challenge on the fadal as they arent real rigid and generally dont have much hp. if you do much hogging this will not be a long lived machine.

if i had to choose fadal-haas i would go with the haas having worked on both. haas wont fall apart quite as fast.

maybe someone has a better alternative for comparable money, these machine dont seem to be a fit for you steel work.

 

doug

[Storkman]

Agreed, we machine mostly stainless here. The 4020 Fadal we had didn't pan out well at all. Glad it is gone.

[toy4x4]

As someone who has machined and done maintenance on both machines I prefer the Haas. The Haas has

a gear driven spindle whereas the Fadal is belt drive. This allows you to maintain better torque under heavy cuts. Ive seen Fadal spindles stop under heavy cuts where the belts just cant hold.

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Thank you guys for your input .

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Yeah, if you're only considering the two, Haas will probably be the more reliable and sturdy of the two. The Haas control does have some nice features standard that are options (and pricey ones at that) on the Fanuc. The Auto Feed function will definitely help in this case as spindle load will play a big role in how long this macine lasts cutting stainless.

 

HTH

[chris m]

Not all Haas' are gear-driven and a gearbox machine won't like running 7500 all day [my Haas gearbox machine maxes at 7500 while the belt-drive machines are far higher] for sure. If you are going to be surfacing at 120IPM in a Haas and you want good tolerance and form you'll probably need to consider their HSM option which will bump up the price some; I don't know about the cost in the Fadal.

 

The umbrella-style toolchangers in both machines suck, though the Fadal is worse; you can certainly have a cigarette during a toolchange from T1 to T10.

 

In my experience, everyone in the shop hates the Fadal except the guy running it, who learns its quirks and then takes bizarre pride in being the Fadal guy.

 

You may want to reach out to forum member Surface who is a Fadal guy and actually wrote the check to buy his; he should give you a pretty good idea of what the machine can do.

 

C

[Storkman]

quote:

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except the guy running it, who learns its quirks and then takes bizarre pride in being the Fadal guy.

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Does he live in his mom's basement??

 

[Thad]

quote:

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Does he live in his mom's basement??

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Terry, you said you wouldn't tease me about that anymore.

 

Thad

[Zoober]

Iskander, I was an App engineer and Service manager for 8 yrs for a Fadal distributor.

The most common complaints - and repairs - were:

1)Belts - will stretch and wear out fast if running high RPMs or cutting steel

2)cheap, small diameter ballscrews

3) many spindle problems. from sticking tapers, to bad bearings.

4)bad servo systems - motors, amps, cards. (fadal, not fanuc, so may not apply here)

5) bad way systems - have seen turcite fall off many machines , constant gib adjustments needed.

 

Saying that, I know of many shops that made a lot of money with these machines. They are cheaply made, but also fast and cheaply repaired and maintained.

Believe it or not, the most success that I've seen is in machining small (hold in one hand) steel parts. Slow feeds and speeds, light cuts, and fadal can make lots of $$$$

 

HTH! and good luck

[Storkman]

quote:

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Terry, you said you wouldn't tease me about that anymore.

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Sorry buddy. I didn't mention any names.

[Bpin]

quote:

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except the guy running it, who learns its quirks and then takes bizarre pride in being the Fadal guy.

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Ran one for over10 years doing close tolerance mold plates and pockets. Loved it so much I bought one of my own.. You get what you pay for.

[Rick Henrickson The Boeing Co.]

Both are cheap, But I think the Haas is ahead of the Fadal (otherwhise known as FATAL)

[Surface]

I've got a 2005 Fadal 4020, (side-mount toolchanger and Fanuc 18i control) and a 2006 Haas VF2ss (with Renishaw probe/tool-setter).

 

Fadal is a box-way machine verses Haas's guide-ways. Guide-ways are faster and more accurate. Box-ways offer better vibration dampening. It's very interesting to hear identical cuts from different machines. If your doing 4th axis stuff, I wouldn't think vibration dampening is a big concern. Last month my Fadal made almost 2000 pounds of steel chips using a Mits AJX high-feed cutter. I don't recommend using a Fadal that way, but I could and did. The Haas couldn't using identical speeds/feeds/d.o.c.

 

The Haas has a 12000 rpm direct drive spindle verses Fadals 10000 rpm high/low belt drive. Fadal has a little more low-rpm torque, but direct drive is quieter and less to go wrong.

 

Haas has faster tool-changer, rapids and is overall a quicker machine. The Renishaw package was only like $6k, verses Fadal's $10k.

 

Fadal is offering a new FX 4020 model, but they seem to having some "executive issues" these days. Overall, I think Haas has their act better together. I'd lean you more towards Haas.

[Jaz]

I don't remember where I this information so it may be bogus. The Fadal has box ways which can be ground and reconditioned while the Haas's guide ways cannot be. IMO, Fadal = Haas = POS, especially after a couple of years.

[Colin Gilchrist]

Iskander,

 

Look at the Haas VF-4SS.

 

Its a great machine. We had ours with a 2 axis trunion table for 5 axis or 3 axis machining. 600 IPM feedrates, 833 IPM rapids, 12,000K spindle.

 

Bang for the buck man, that is what you get. I would buy one in a heart beat.

 

I can't say the same for Fadal.

 

HTH,

[Zoober]

Fadal trivia.......

Which of the below cars shared the same air sensor as the Fadal??

1)Pinto

2)Vega

3)porsche (yea, right)

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If you said 2)Vega, your right!!!

You win an all expense trip to.....ah, nevermind

[Guest]

I have had a fadal for 4 years now.

i am a job shop and i cut averything from

Armer plate to hmw nylon.

the only problem i have had is to replace

2 axes cards, i cut steel at 3506rpm and 35.ipm

at .110 to .150doc.

I like my fadal makes me a living...

[Guest]

quote:

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i cut steel at 3506rpm and 35.ipm

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Wow, I guess I should slow down my 100 IPM huh?

 

[Zoober]

On an Enco Kneemill??

[#Rekd™]

Hi Iskander,

 

I would say they are both sub par, but can make you money. If you go with a HAAS do not use their pull studs, do a search on this forum.

 

We looked at haas, fadal, milltronics and daewoo. We bought the daewoo, the machine weighs twice as much the haas and fadal and 50% more than the milltronics, comes standard with a fanuc control and drives, has a side mount tool changer. All these machines were within $5000.00 of each other.

 

Good luck!

 

John