Hacked CAD/CAM

[MetalMarvels]

What can we (legit users) do when we run across a website advertising hacked (un-protected) CAD/CAM software - MasterCam in particular. Ran across a thread when poking around for various Raster to Vector S/W options.

 

www.ifps.org/wwwboard/messages/2262.html

 

Really frosts me as a paid user!!!

[kccadcam]

What's really sad is there does'nt seem to be any way to stop it, only slow it down.

It doesn't matter what software it is, it will be hacked sooner or later.

V9 was hacked almost the day it was released!

I've seen current releases of all these: Rhino, Solidworks, CadKey, Catia, Pro-E, Autocad, Etc., Etc.

[iowajim62]

Hello,

You could contact www.nopiracy.com.

HTH

Jim

[PE @ IHS]

I have yet to hear of a single machine shop actually being prosecuted by a CAM software vendor or reseller. Until this happens, there will be no deterrent. People will simply take their chances (which are very good at the moment) instead of doing the right thing and paying for what they use.

 

When I was teaching CNC programming at college, every single student had a cracked copy of Mastercam by the end of the first week. They graduate, get jobs, and take the software with them to their place of employment.

 

Being tough on crime is the only way to reduce it.

 

Microsoft finally cracked down, and voila...tons of revenue.

[Charles Davis]

I've never met a company using illegal software that ever amounted to anything.

 

There are two reasons for this:

1. They can't get support for illegal software, so their posts don't work, etc. The production company's loose because they use unsupported software far exceeds what they've have spent to be legal. Call it penny wise and dollar foolish.

 

2. Company's that use illegal software have corrupt attitudes and practices that permeate everything they do, and this is sensed by everyone who does business with them. Call is karma, call it "what goes around comes around", but this is a fact of life as sure as death and taxes.

 

[ 07-23-2002, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Charles Davis ]

[mold100]

Charles,I wish I could agree with you,I know a former customer we used was using a

hacked seat of 8 when we only had 7.2,his hacked version had all the bells and whistles including somehow a legit seat of moldplus,He said where there's a will theres a way,he also had a cd with probably 1200 or more v8 posts.All this for $400.00 dollars.Plus he said he paid around 1500 for moldplus.Still it worked fine,Mill,Lathe, and wire.If you have it ,know what your doing with it, you shouldnt need support,I know shops that still use v5 daily.

It is just Like cable and satalite tv,when they figure out how to stop it,someone already got around it.Maybe legit companies should check into thier vendors software to be sure theyre dealing with people on the upside,if they will pirate MC I am sure they will take advantage of thier customers.

[TheePres]

A former employer of mine was busted with illegal MasterCam (wont name, but u can read about it at BSA website). Anyhow, to show how corrupt ALL are, BSA just collected their/theyr'e/there attorney fees and dissapeared. No attempt at prosecution, confiscation, nothing. Now I ask, how serious are attempts at curtailing piracy??

[gcode]

Its a paradox.

People who wouldn't lift an apple from a fruit stand will steal a $20K software program without blinking an eye. At the end of the day though, a thief is a thief.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

BSA = Bull $#!+ Alliance

 

They don't do squat. I've reported several companies ofer the last couple of years and NADA. It's not even worth the effort to even report it IMHO.

 

This issue played a part in me leaving the Mastercam Reseller I worked for. I'd go demo the product to a company, they'd request a quote and nothing. Then I hear through the grapevine they have it, bought it for $50 or just got it. Just sad. Just sad. Those @$$holes say "it doesn't hurt anybody", or "it's just software, it's no big deal", well, it hurt me and my family directly. It's no better than them coming into my house with guns and robbing my family. Perhaps it's less traumatic, but nonetheless every bit as financially painful. Perhaps I took it too personally but when it affects my ability to provide for my family you're darn right I got angry.

 

I'd just love to talk about a case I know of that the BSA is "investigating" (a company that was caught in the past) but that would not be cool so I wont.

 

CNC, BSA are you listening???? People are pissed and we have a right to be!!!!! Me included!!!!!

 

Sigh....

 

OUT!

[Charles Davis]

During the current slowdown, I've seen some shops go out of business. Only one of those was a legal user of Mastercam. The others used "brand X, Y or Z" or were bootlegging.

 

That tells me that either my theory about corrupt behavior is right, or those with legal Mastercam are just a heck of a lot more competitive.

[PE @ IHS]

AMEN to James M.

[Brian Summers CNC Software Inc VP]

I must respond to James here. I am in charge of Mastercam's anti-piracy effort here at Corporate and it is a very large and frustrating problem we all face. I do think that it is a mistake to use BSA as a scapegoat however. Their enforcement effort is very wide range, worldwide and puts a positive dent in piracy in a much larger scale than James may realize.

 

BSA has a three tier program which goes from sending compliance letters to obtaining an audit of your company's software licenses. Also, they run very successful Truce campaigns which prompt many pirates to comply. BSA has had some great successes. In one case, the customer had to pay $52,000 in penaties in addition to shelling out another $25,000 for legit Mastercam software. Ironicially, the case James speaks of is just about to close with similar penalties for the customer. Patience has its rewards. Sorry James, this isn't Hawaii 5-0 - ya have to do the work and be persistent for the payoff then we book the order, Dano!

 

The other thing to realize here is that BSA is only one tool we have to fight this battle - Proactive Mastercam dealers have realized this and have had great success combining their own efforts. Again, it's a big mistake to think BSA will solve all your problems and to use them as a reason for your lack of success.

 

Remember, the more people that report piracy to 1-888-NO-Piracy (BSA Hotline) the greater the chance that you will be investigated. The remaining question you have to ask yourself is "Can my company afford for this to happen"?

 

Thanks for listening and purchasing legal software on your own - the benefits hugely out-weigh the risks in the long run.

 

Brian

 

p.s. to answer Metal Marvel's question - BSA monitors all of the peer to peer services and shuts down infringing sites on a daily basis - I will forward yours to them - thanks for the tip.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Sorry James, this isn't Hawaii 5-0 - ya have to do the work and be persistent for the payoff then we book the order, Dano!

---

This process is slower than molasses in the dead of winter. Sorry for going off like that Brian, but it's just a huge bummer when you report stuff and (apparently) nothing is being done. I mean shoot, by the time you actually serve a warrant/search order(sorry my legalese is a bit lacking), they could've moved their entire plant, machines and all. Man I want to see sombody loose everything they own, even the shirt off their backs, their FACE on the news, the whole nine-yards. Because currently Brian, there is NO FEAR of getting busted. None whatsoever. The risks of being caught for running pirated software(MS, Autodesk, Solidworks, etc... ad infinitum) at a business are less than the odds of getting a speeding ticket for driving 70 in a 65.

 

JM2C

[Kenneth Potter]

To Brian Summers

 

Heres a simple solution.

 

Cnc Software can offer whistle Blowers reward of 100.000K...

 

Hey ...I can pop out the Ideas

[PE @ IHS]

Hi Kenneth

 

Here are some more realistic suggestions

 

1.) stop including ANY post processors with Mastercam. Licensed users can get their posts directly from their reseller. This will at least reduce the usefulness of hacked Mastercam V10. A pirate would have to KNOW a licensed user to get their post, which is unlikely to happen. Even the posts available EMASTERCAM should be more difficult to obtain. A valid SIM and company name should be a requirement (which can be checked easily). MP Master will run the majority of mills out there quite nicely, and this is a very valuable item to be made available to pirates on the web.

 

2.) Hand out Mastercam Demo CDs to schools like it's candy. Students can pay a nominal $10 fee and receive a CD. This CD should be able to save their files, but it should not be able to post and all CAD work should be limited to .1 tolerance as it currently is. The biggest reason my students exchanged cracked MC was because they wanted to practice at home and do their homework. They can't save with the current demo disk, so it is of little use to them. If we flood trade-shows, schools, etc. with such demo CDs, there will be less of a demand for hacked MC in the schools. This translates into a lower supply of it in industry over time. 55 year old mould shop owners don't hack software, it is the 21 year old college kid that hacks it or finds it on the internet.

 

3.) Publicize successful prosecution of illegal MC users. A lot of shops would take notice if an article appeared in Modern Machine Shop outlining the consequences of illegal software use. The article should include a statement such as "many shops are reported by disgruntled employees and competitors". This is the biggest fear of a pirate software user, since he has no control over former employees.

 

4.) To catch more pirates, start advertising in local newspapers and use a generic e-mail address to get resumes of Mastercam programmers. A simple help wanted ad for Mastercam Programmers with INDUSTRIAL EXPERIENCE will yield a good number of resumes. Compare the company names to the local dealer's database of licensed users.

 

5.) Consider using codes that expire annually. This is a pain in the xxxx for legal users, but it might reduce illegal use. This seems to work well for Predator (though I could be wrong on this one).

 

6.) Resellers can toughen up and threaten legal action when dealing with known pirates. We have signed up 5 pirates for new seats in the past 6 weeks by doing this. It doesn't always work, but the word WILL get out to local shops that there is a local crackdown taking place.

 

I guess I should stop yapping and drag my butt to work!

 

Peter E.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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55 year old mould shop owners don't hack software, it is the 21 year old college kid that hacks it or finds it on the internet.

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Correction, the majority of the great hackers are under 18. Much of it is not rocket science anymore with the advent of so many software tool available for free on the internet.

 

I think there should be rewards for turning people in. Even a small amount say $100 for every successful prosecution would be quite lucrative for me considering the market here in SoCal is FLOODED with Mastercam Pirate Shop Owners. So what if it's "Paying for testimony". Prosecutors and Defense pay for testimony all the time.

 

JM2C

[David S]

quote:

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Heres a simple solution.

 

Cnc Software can offer whistle Blowers reward of 100.000K

---

That is where the problem comes from.

 

BSA and CNC do not want to pay you the $100,000.00.

 

Put your feet in their shoes: pay $100,000.00 plus prosecution fee, lawyers.... go after a small shop owner who leased his CNC from dealer and has a lot of bank debts (you will get $0 from him). Are you going to do it?

 

If BSA and CNC say this is not the case, then tell us how many people have received the $100,000.00 so far since there are so many reports from these good professionals in this forum.

 

quote:

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I've reported several companies ofer the last couple of years

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James, you are rich man.

[Brian Summers CNC Software Inc VP]

James:

 

That's terrific that you are skilled in bashing the BSA and again blaming them, but my guess is that if you took the time you spent posting 1700 messages on this forum and instead spent it being more proactive against piracy, you would have made some forward progress against this problem by now. Your opinion shows a shallow understanding of the BSA's enforcement program. If you wish to learn more about it off-line, I will be happy to explain it to you.

 

What you are currently doing does nothing to help - it only hurts the effort if you are trying to get the negative message across about the BSA. The proliferation of your message is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don’t understand your motivation.

 

If you have any further comments on BSA, please be considerate and e-mail them directly to me. Otherwise, I would like to respectfully request that you refrain from this type of damaging posting on this forum.

 

To Peter E – thanks for your constructive comments – they have merit and we will consider using them. Regarding publicity of Mastercam crackdowns, this has been mostly on the BSA site (www.bsa.com) but they do have press releases for each one.

 

Brian

[Charles Davis]

I like Peter's comments. Why not allow people to download Mastercam Draft off the web for free, and include with draft Demo toolpaths?

 

The mc9's would be compatible with industrial mastercam, but the toolpaths would not be compatible.

 

Solidworks has an educational copy that times out after 18 months. Whenever you print something, it says "Educational Version Not For Industrial Use." I understand if you read a model created in the student version into an industrial version, it won't work.

 

The point here is, like Peter says, flood the market with a product that will allow people to learn and practice Mastercam.

[David S]

quote:

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I would like to respectfully request that you refrain from this type of damaging posting on this forum.

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For what? Talking in America? Canadian think the same way?

 

Well, we will miss you, James!

 

1700 posts! Wow! Thank you for the helps over the years, James!

 

God bless you!

[Brian Summers CNC Software Inc VP]

For those interested in reporting illegal use of Mastercam to the BSA or finding out more about their programs, their link is at the very bottom of this forum page. Thanks for your help.

 

Here is a link to view one of the Mastercam settlements:

 

http://www.bsa.org/usa/press/newsreleases/...8-14.1126.phtml

 

Brian

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Thank you for your kind words David S.

 

I will not stop posting in this forum.

 

I will honor Brian's wishes however to not post inflammatory postings regarding this subject. I respect him and actually I like him too, he's a great guy in a tough position. He's got to defend his interests and it just so happens that we clash on this particular subject. I'm not so shallow that his comments offend me. I'd even buy him lunch (if he lived on the left coast) so we could further discuss the issue.

 

I have the somewhat rare opportunity to have seen this issue from 2 sides of the 3 sides to the issue (1. Software Reseller, 2. Legit User, or 3. Software Writer - which does not apply to me) so I look at things from those two perspectives. Mostly looking at it from the side of the VAR is what get's my blood boiling though and I tend to "go off" when the subject arises. If it were not for that issue, I most likely would still be working for a reseller even though sales is not my gig. I just dig tech support. I suppose that's why I post so much.

 

My personal mission in this forum is to offer my expertise to the legitimate Mastercam public. I've probably unwittingly helped hundreds of pirates over the last couple of years in here but I know I've helped a number of legit Mastercam users as well. I guess I've got to take the good with the bad. I have however refused to give stuff to quite a few people who e-mailed me personally asking for this post or that post or questions I deem should be handled by their reseller . So, here's something for you lurkers If you e-masil me regarding any of the above, be prepared to give me your Name, Company Name, Mastercam Dealer and their phone number. If you omit any of these except the dealer's phone number, you'll get NOTHING from me and that is a promise!

 

[ 07-25-2002, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[Guest]

like i said before, if mastercam gave me 5 dollares for all the shops that i know that has bootleg. making millions of $$$$$$$$$$. I WOULD BE RICH. i went on an interview yesterday at a large machine shop. they had a bootleg copy at ever work station.

[Brian Summers CNC Software Inc VP]

Thank you James for your discretion and understanding.

 

Also, I respect the fact that you are willing to help our customers through this forum - thanks for your continued efforts to help our licensed customers.

 

To Arty2000 - You have first hand knowledge of an illegal user - please do the right thing and report the incident to the BSA 1-888-NO-Piracy. Also, if they have other infringing software other than Mastercam (like Microsoft products, Autodesk, Adobe, Symantec, etc..) this helps the case more as there are more companies being infringed.

 

Thanks all.

Brian

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Thank you James for your discretion and understanding.

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Sure. This is just one subject that really elevates my blood pressure. Which I'm sure you can relate to.

 

quote:

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...Also, I respect the fact that you are willing to help our customers through this forum - thanks for your continued efforts to help our licensed customers.

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As always, it's my pleasure. Gotta get my "techie" fix somehow. Teaching is a pretty good outlet but I crave the tough questions that students don't always come up with.