Lathe Mill/Turn RANT!!!!!!

[crazy^millman]

I am at my wits end with Lathe. I am so ready to throw Mastercam out of here because of my frustration with the Lack of anything for Lathe. We have paid 3 years of Maintenance on Lathe for what? I can not get a simple sun spindle drilling to work. I have did it 14 times and on the 15 time guess what using the same setting and shutting in down and bringing it back up it work. Nothing is different that my 14 other attempts but on the 15 attempt in which I have shut this computer down 5 times it works. CNC should be paying on the Mill/Turn guys to use this software. I have spent 2 hours making a 30 second program. I have to do it in Mastercam because the owner wants everything to be output from programming so if there are REV changes and such it is just a quick change and report. Not today and not for this part it isn't. It would be different if I was asking Mastercam to sync 2 turrets move the B axis at the same time to mill a slot and then pick the machine up and sweep under it, but I am asking Mastercam to drill a hole in the SUB spindle. Nothing more nothing less. I had to make the whole thing which should be part turning and milling a complete milling program. It was only after I got that done that I was determined to get would should be a simple 30 second thing to work and 15 times later it did. Where is the updates for lathe? Where is something besides the nothingness that comes out of CNC about Lathe? I have told at least 30 people to look at other software for their Mill/Turns and I know many others that do the same thing. I really wonder how many lost sells their have been? Is 30 enough to warrant something is 100 or does it take 20,000 users to make CNC stand up and say maybe we need to embrace this problem and do something about it???

[Hardmill]

Sorry bout that Ron

 

I wish they'd do something with it, it is way overdue.

Same type of prog take a few mins in Esprit and

posts perfectly first time.

 

What kind of machine are you running??

 

 

PEACE

[crazy^millman]

Integrex E 410 HS. Single tool B axis that goes from main spindle to sub spindle. Like the NT series from Mori.

[GoetzInd]

Im in the same boat. Its kind of hard to go out and start from scatch after thousands of dollars and hours spent getting to this point. They should have just said that they were not going to support multitasking back in 02 rather then string us along for 6 years.

 

Mike

[crazy^millman]

Here is the program I finally got.

 

code:

---

(PROGRAM NAME - E1025100)

(CUSTOMER - BOEING)

(PART NUMBER - 17P1C2054-5 REV-C)

(MODEL # - 17P1C2054-5 REV-C.CATPART)

(PROGRAMMER - RON

(DATE - OCT-14-2009)

(TIME - 12:17 PM)

(PROGRAM REV - N/C)

(POST LICENSE - V&M PRECISION)

(T10 | END MILL 1. DIA. - .015R | EIA SUFFIX - .04 | MAZATROL SUFFIX - D)

(T11 | 1/2 DOVE TAIL MILL | EIA SUFFIX - .04 | MAZATROL SUFFIX - D)

G20 G49 G69 G80 G40 G18 G90 G94

M205

 

N1

(T10 | END MILL 1. DIA. - .015R | EIA SUFFIX - .04 | MAZATROL SUFFIX - D)

G20 G10.9 X1

G91 G30 P3 X0.

G30 P3 Z0.

M302

T10.04 T11 M06

G91 G30 P3 X0. Z0.

G90

M108

G0 G54 B180.

M107

G0 G43 P1 X0. Y0. Z-.25

G17

M238

G97 S400 M304

M8

G99 G83 Z.3 R-.25 Q.025 F.005

G80

M9

G0

M305

G91 G30 P3 X0.

G30 P3 Z0.

G90

M01

 

N2

(T11 | 1/2 DOVE TAIL MILL | EIA SUFFIX - .04 | MAZATROL SUFFIX - D)

G20 G10.9 X0

G91 G30 P3 X0.

G30 P3 Z0.

T11.04 T10 M06

G91 G30 P3 X0. Z0.

G90

M300

M312

G94 G0 G54.1 P10 U180.

M108

G0 B180.

M107

G97 S1000 M03

G0 G17 G43 P1 X.0036 Y0. Z-.25

Z-.1

G94 G1 Z0. F10.

X.1892

U90. F3600.

U0.

U270.

U180.

U166.8289 F10.

X.0036 U166.8286

Z-.1

G0 Z-.25

G91 G30 P3 X0.

G30 P3 Z0. M05

G90

M01

G30 P3 Y0.

M30

---

[Don S at Barefoot CNC South]

Hey Ron

The canned rough and finish turns have never worked right. Among other things

[GoetzInd]

Are you just trying to drill a hole on center on the sub because it looks like you got it.

 

Mike

[BrianCNC]

This morning I was doing a simple live tool program and on the stock flip it moved all the 1st side operations to the back side of the part and when I tried to fix them it crashed.

 

It seems to be getting worse instead of better.

[Greg McKay]

Hey Guys,

 

Whats new?

 

I haven't posted in a while, I have moved from Support to Applications where my focus is on Lathe.

 

I would ask Millman for the part but we all know it will work for me.

 

As always if someone has a problem that can be repeated send it up.

 

There have been enhancement to lathe recently and there are enhancements in X4Mu1.

 

Some things that come to mind;

"Stock Shade" and "Stock Display" toolbar options.

Tool inspection for groove toolpaths.

Change feeds and speeds on finish pass in grooving.

improved 2d profile performance.

 

What can I do to help with your lathe issues?

[MIL-TFP-41]

1- sync codes

2- machine simulation...even something simple like being able to backplot an upper & lower turret cutting simultaneously..."pinch turn"

 

3- improved stock transfer

 

4- fix the canned stuff already

 

5- Too many items to list...

[rant]

Tool insspection is nice and all...but you could easily do this in the past with 2 different grooving operations. "Stock shade" does not impress me much...either does finally being able to verify with a round boring bar.

 

CNC Software should go buy a seat of Esprit...take a few classes & reverse engineer what they got. As it is...the only thing Mastercam is adequate at in lathe is single turret/single spindle machines.

[/rant]

[crazy^millman]

quote:

---

I would ask Millman for the part but we all know it will work for me.

---

#1 Go check the Beta forum.

 

#2 Go look for my sent files to QC and you will find plenty of my files in which you can make work please knock yourself out.

 

I can make anything work Greg point is it should work the same every time and when it does not then we have problems.

 

Next Parts removed for sake of keeping my good standing on the forum. Greg you can email me and we can discuss this further.

 

Mike very simple thing and yes I got it to work. I can always figure out ways to lie to the software to get the job done, but having to figure out ways is a waste of my employers time!!

[BrianCNC]

Here are a few of my complaints.

 

1) Misc ops not working consistently and showing the same in back plot and verify.

2) Sometimes we you change a tool path the tool follows the part correctly, but it still shows about .050" worth of stock around the part.

3) When I change something that has nothing to do with the actual tool path all operations get dirty.

4) Round boring bars in verify--try looking at that with custom drawn Sandvik Capto bars.

5) Canned cycles--I have a post fix that corrects this and the issue of seq #'s resetting on stock flip that I have posted elsewhere on here, but back plot does not behave like the machine does.

6) In mill I can make major changes to an existing file--in lathe it is easier to start over.

7) How about when verifying milling operations the part turns (like back plot) instead of the tool moving around and thru the part.

[Bruce Caulley]

I am working on what might end up being a decent sized turnkey at the moment based on a multitasking lathe.

 

MC is not on my list of software to recommend.

 

Bruce

[Nbezi]

Crazy^Millman you should check out the Espirit youtube channel, they have some great videos showing the capabilities

of Espirit, especially in the Turn/mill area.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/DavidDPTechnology

[Hardmill]

quote:

---

Crazy^Millman you should check out the Espirit youtube channel, they have some great videos showing the capabilities

of Espirit, especially in the Turn/mill area.

---

Trust me, weve all been thru this and he knows.

I use Esprit daily and it can be beat for Mill/Turn.

 

 

PEACE

[Chris Rizzo]

quote:

---

I use Esprit daily and it can be beat for Mill/Turn.

---

Did you mean to say CAN'T be beat?

[Greg Williams]

That extra letter makes a slight difference

[dan m]

[begin rant] where i work now I got hired to program the mill/turn with mc9. after the first couple simple jobs jobs i got 1 that i had no clue how to do in mc. after some research i talked the company into buy espite. The problem with that is enginering likes it so much i am back to being a setup/operator. Hopefully one day i will get my chance again. Did I mention I have only been programming with mc since 1990.

[rant over]

[Hardmill]

quote:

---

Did you mean to say CAN'T be beat?

---

Yes thats what I meant

 

:eye gouge:

 

 

PEACE

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Partmaker will give Esprit a run for it's money though.

[gaijin_2007]

quote:

---

Partmaker will give Esprit a run for it's money though.

---

I was browsing teh interweb earlier and saw this.

 

http://www.partmaker.com/news/press_articl...p?releaseId=782

 

PowerMILL toolpaths inside of Partmaker?

I'd say that's a trump card for multi-tasking machines IMO.

[Scott Garrison@Weiler Engineering]

I use Lathe just for simple turning. (1 turret/spindle)

But there are issues there as well.

 

I'm currently programming a simple part and a boring op keeps wanting to retract through the part for no apparant reason. I've done this many times and this time it won't work (sound familiar?)

 

Also, I have many parts that I will use a live center for and then flip the part and have no center. Once you turn on the tailstock it will never go away. So if you have to face the part after the tailstock op MC gives warning messages about hitting the tailstock even though it is turned off. Very annoying. The code works but the backplot looks stupid with the center all chewed up!

 

Also, I'd like to avoid that whole stock flip crap and be able to work like I do in mill where I set-up work planes around the part and use different machine groups. I realize the whole stock recognition is why it works like it does but I always have to redo the stock flips when using the program as a reference for a new part.

 

Also, I don't like having to have multiple geometry layers for 1 part. Layer 1 - op #1

Layer 2 - op #2 etc.. if something changes I have to change 2 or three layers. Not a big deal unless it is multiple changes and depending on how involved.

 

Also, tool numbers seem to change themselves to 0???

 

Thanks,

 

Scott

[chris m]

quote:

---

Also, tool numbers seem to change themselves to 0???

---

This is a personal favorite of mine; tools also seem to renumber themselves randomly from time to time, which is always nice.

 

Roughing tools that backplot with strange angles shown on the stock, when the tools actually run in a straight line, are also a nice added feature.

 

The list is LONG

[crazy^millman]

Here is a good example of how messed up Lathe is. Simple enough operation. Like what started this. I want to do some back spindle turning since it is not working like it is suppose to I had to create a new Machine group. Then regen these operations in the new machine group since they quit working in the main group. I get the 1st 3 operations with the same settings in the 1st machine group that would not work to work in the 3rd machine group. Now we get to the 4th operation which is just a simple center drilling operation. Guess what with the following setting with pictures so you can see how really stupid I am does not work.

 

Picture 1 I am showing you how I set up my material and my chuck. You can see the Material and chuck showing in the screen.

 

 

Please point out what I did wrong here.

 

The second picture shows my 1st page of setting for the operation as you can see I was smart enough to select the correct axis combintation though Mastercam was not even though only the right chuck and Material was defined it defualted back to left.

 

 

As we move on to the 3rd screen shot we can see where I have defined the Clearance, retract, and depth correctly for the sub spindle. How I ever figured that out I have no clue, but here we are.

 

 

Was I smart enough to define the tool correctly?? guess I should show my set-up for the tool well lets see where I screwed that up shall we.

 

 

Ok so all of that is defined as best my simple mind can figure it out. So if we hit the regen button it will work. I mean Mastercam in this basic set-up works so flawless it is like setting your clock by it right.

 

 

Oh what is this we see, but a problem now why would this happen with such a perfect program like Mastercam??? Sorry for be such a smart arse, but when it takes me hours to fix something that should take minutes my patience goes out the window.

[mayday]

quote:

---

when it takes me hours to fix something that should take minutes my patience goes out the win

---

+1000

been my complaint all along, but no ones seems to give a ****, just send money