Lathe Mill/Turn RANT!!!!!!

[Camaix]

Hey guys - it would appear there are two issues being discussed here - one being general issues with lathe in more "generic" functionality such as main to sub-spindle transfer and sub-spindle functionality and the more "advanced" functionality of Mill/ turn and synchronizing of multiple turrets with main and or sub spindle. And I realize that what I am about to recommend does not answer all the frustrations discussed but I suggest you take a look at sync lathe from Camaix as that is attempting to address the issue of multiple turret synchronization currently in MasterCAM and address this by uses currently 2 streams of POSTED code and combines it with machine simulation and collision checking to insert wait and sync codes where applicable and user control. Your feedback would be highly appreciated and welcomed.

 

http://www.camaix.intrameld.net/downloads/..._Level1_VX4.exe

[Glenn Bouman]

I have never had problem with doing a simple part transfer like you are doing. Are sure that the "Tool Clearance Violation" is not due to that tool hitting the main chuck?

[3R!< W3NG3R]

we had a trial version of lathe here and it is exactly these kind of problems that stopped us from buying it. I also don't want to pay maint on something that gets no attention.

[robh]

Glenn, It doesn't look as if the main spindle is even defined, so it shouldn't be hitting it or so one would think..

[Sbarner]

I don't want to steal any of Millman's thunder here, but I wanted to get my 2 cents out there.

 

quote:

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I use Lathe just for simple turning. (1 turret/spindle) But there are issues there as well.

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+1000

 

We also use Mastercam lathe for 1 spindle, 1 turret machining. I find that my experience with Mastercam lathe is never the same. Some times it is quick and easy, and sometimes I have to grind away at it to do simple stuff. A few of my complaints.

 

*I use reference points for my ID operations. I have yet to understand why I have to do this. My stock is always properly defined. I can't comprehend why Mastercam is smart enough to tell me when my lead in/out isn't correct leading to a crash, and yet...can't figure out that the tool needs to be retracted from the stock in Z before going home.

 

*I always love when I check the coolant settings and see the little (*) by the coolant indicating that it is ON. Then I go to the machine, run the program to find that it is NOT on. When I check the program again, and actually open the coolant settings, I see that it is OFF, even though

a. it said it was turned on

b. it is set to be on in the operation defaults.

 

*I made a topic a week or two ago about how the tool numbers, speed/feed, and coolant change when I make a new machine group. I was told to simply do a new toolpath group. Why? If I do a new toolpath group, I can't define stock that may get bigger or smaller between similar parts. The only work around I have is to make many files of the part and change each file, or fight with having to delete many of the same tool out of the toolpath manager, reset all my speeds and feeds from values which are unknown to me (I have the op defaults as well as the tools set to what I want)

 

I keep looking forward to the next release of Mastercam to see if some simple things have been taken care of in lathe. I am still looking forward to the next release of Mastercam lathe. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[chris m]

I also enjoy when I repost a file with NO CHANGES and get different code; not huge differences, in fact only a tenth or two, but WTF? Don't get me wrong, both this company in general and me personally have made a lot of money running programs written with MC Lathe, but it ain't the best that it could be.

[Rob Dusenbury CAD/CAM CONSULTING]

Your problem is in the stock setup (tool setting clearance). Your rapid moves are set to .100. That means if you rapid within .1 of your stock mastercam will alarm a warning. Since you are drilling, the default is set to rapid within .1 so the warning is valid.

 

Either adjust your settings in the toolpath, or change the tool setting clearance to something smaller like .02.

[chris m]

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That means if you rapid within .1 of your stock mastercam will alarm a warning

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Funny how that NEVER works in roughing cycles when MC rapids to .002 away from the rough forging...

[Rob Dusenbury CAD/CAM CONSULTING]

quote:

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Funny how that NEVER works in roughing cycles when MC rapids to .002 away from the rough forging...

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That's because of the entry and exit setting.

 

Adjusting the tool clearance makes all the difference. It's works a lot like the gouge checking on holders in the mill paths. You can give it a barrier amount off of the holder to check against.

[crazy^millman]

Rob there were the default setting and giving me that problem I tired the .1 and .05 after the default settings were not working either.

[mayday]

Rob must sell this crap, not make parts on a daily basis. Wish you code writters and resellers actually had to produce like we do. try jumping from Mori NL, Mori NLY, Integrex mark 3 / mark 4 and E machines on a moments notice and produce working code. Dont think any of you really know whats going on in the shops day to day activities, and proly dont care. to bad your sales are going to drop

 

edit:

BTW, I'm done being the nice forum guy. You may read/not read our problems with this software. But your end users read it. And that outta scare the **** out of you, if you want to stay in business

[nofalloff]

Can I join the gripefest? I only use lathe for simple 2axis work on two older machines. MC lathe tool library/management is terrible. Whats the point of being able to save a tool offset # with the tool if it's not brought into the op when you choose the tool? Likewise if you change inserts and edit say the nose rad, MC resets the tool offset number and if you don't catch it you can watch you tool go somewhere you didn't plan. I assume these are "features"?

[Hardmill]

quote:

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edit:

BTW, I'm done being the nice forum guy

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quote:

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Registered: Jan 2001

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PEACE

[Rob Dusenbury CAD/CAM CONSULTING]

Ron, Can you email me this part. I would like to see all of your settings if thats okay.

 

Mayday, until you and I sit down and have a beer together, Please don't make anymore assumtions about me.

 

quote:

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Wish you code writters and resellers actually had to produce like we do.

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If you knew my job or me personally, then your wish above has already come true.

[Thee Rickster ™]

Rob, how much has this inconvenience cost you or

your company? Did the say, 5 to 10 major bugs in the release of X4 cost you horrendous down time and

scrap parts? (Before MU1)

 

That my friend is what its all about, not ego.

Mayday is frustrated for those reasons. He has earned his venting privilege, as have I.

[crazy^millman]

Rob, you got mail.

 

The file has floated around enough could really care less who sees it. Also willing to be schooled on things I do not do that others probably think I should like stock transfer and all that stuff.

[chris m]

Are you talking about THIS Entry/Exit setting:

 

 

Because if you are, it doesn't work for sh!t

 

Fight battles you can win, dude; the defense of MC Lathe isn't gonna be one of them

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Also willing to be schooled on things I do not do that others probably think I should like stock transfer and all that stuff.

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Definitely a breath of fresh air, someone willing to learn possibly a new approach to something to address an issue. Unlike some who know every thing there is to know about CAM yet can't drill holes without making a mess. Name rymes with :cough: Banquer :cough: LOL ROFLMAO!!!

 

Way to show some humility Ron and I seriously mean that.

[Mike-T]

What Are Shops Using Now?

One dominant trend underlying hundreds of new technologies to be unveiled at the biennial pan-European international machine tool show, EMO, is the blending of multiple operations into smaller, more compact workstations.

 

"For years, machine tool technology has sought to combine the skills of several machines into a single operating unit," IndustryWeek says. At EMO, one of the largest machine tool exhibitions in the world, set to take place Oct. 5-10 in Milan, "a handful of companies will be showcasing new machine tools that are both versatile and getting smaller and smaller," according to IndustryWeek.

 

Mori Seiki, for instance, will show the NT1000, a compact high-precision integrated mill turn center. Designed for small and complex work pieces, the NT1000 is a standard five-axis machining center, but one of the rotary axes is capable of high-speed rotation, so it can perform lathe operations as well.

 

In American Machinist's 2009 Benchmarks for Machine Shops, the topic of multitasking garnered significant attention. "Out of all the shops that responded [to] the question of which type of multitasking processes they used most, over half indicated that mill-turning was the primary type." This represents a significant increase over last year's survey. (See last year's How Healthy is Your Shop?)

[Mike-T]

Sorry...

This was in an article I came across. Just wanted to point out that this technology isn't going to go away.

 

http://news.thomasnet.com/IMT/archives/200...5&channel=email

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Matsuura's CUBLEX is the ULTIMATE Mill-Turn. Matter of fact, I believe all the other machines (Integrex, MT, etc...) should be called Turn-Mills because Lathe work is their "primary" function and milling is secondary, whereas with the CUBLEX, milling is it's primary function, and Turning is secondary.

 

JM2C

[mayday]

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should be called Turn-Mills because Lathe work is their "primary" function and milling is secondary

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not that your wrong but I'll differ with you on that one. most areospace parts are round hince lathe with hole/slot ect work. other hand airfiols, vains, struts, are mostly mill but with roll toolpaths so in comes the lathe side

end result? make mcam do it as others are way ahead

[mayday]

btw,

why is it, when you drag and drop a lathe path it goes dirty? and why cant you do multi chain face paths in one op?

beginnercam?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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quote:

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should be called Turn-Mills because Lathe work is their "primary" function and milling is secondary

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not that your wrong but I'll differ with you on that one. most areospace parts are round hince lathe with hole/slot ect work.

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I'm not talking about the part. I'm talking about the machine. An integrex is a LATHE that can mill. It cannot hold mill tolerances (±.0003) all day long because of the the inherent design of the machine. Not knocking the machine. Just saying IMHO thay are turn-mills not mill-turns. While it may be semantics, Integrexes, NT's and whatnot cannot mill like a mill. There is inherent weakness in in milling on that type of machine. You must compensate in programming style to accomplish the milling tasks. ALL "B-Axis lathes" have well documented growth issues that a mill that can turn like the CUBLEX does NOT have.

 

JM2C

[gaijin_2007]

I really, really like the look of the Cublex machine.

Yaskawa have actually done a reasonable job making the Siemens control look a bit more user friendly and being able to mix and match G code and Siemens code makes for some powerful programming options.

Not for the average user though IMO, although it could programmed either way (pure G code or pure Siemens) I'd have thought a combination of the both would offer some good options.

Using Siemens TCP for simultaneous 5-axis work whilst vanilla G code for the simple stuff (Siemens drilling cycles aren't pretty to look at) sounds good to me.

CNC Apps Guy, do you know if Camplete have this machine sorted out yet?

Last I heard they were working with PowerMILL and FeatureCAM code to get TruePath to support the Cublex.

Any idea?