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Horizontal Programming your method?

crazy^millman

By crazy^millman,
in Industrial Forum

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mkd Newbie

mkd

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some years ago there was a thread here with a macro to calc actual actual fixture offsets.

 

i think every time the CNC reads a A/B angle it will generate a fixture offset.

 

you can get MC to shift all xyz in the post.

 

either method is based on a pivot point distance to part zero

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BBprecise
BBprecise

Top/Front, foolish do it any other way IMHO. More often then not if a job is sched. for a HMC it stays there (especially on our 50 taper Okuma), so that way I can prog. to the machines capabilities (n

jlw™
jlw™

I've thought this is stupid since I first touched mcam.  It should be as it is, rotated around Y.  Spindle normal to Z like it should be then set any planes around Y.

crazy^millman
crazy^millman

Horizontal programming for me since I started programming in Mastercam has been TOP WCS and Front view for B0 then rotate from there. I know we have had some long conversations about this method, but

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kunfuzed Rookie

kunfuzed

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We only program 4x Verticals and one Head/Head 5x.  Both of which are programmed Top WCS Top A0 for 4x and Top WCS  Top B0 C0 for the 5x.

 

Someone mentioned "Tool perspective" earlier, and to me it seems the logic in Mcam would dictate your WCS is always the Top view of your workpiece when the spindle is at (Axis)0?

 

But it confuses me to read that a horizontal is programmed Top WCS Front B0, because the tool is looking at the Front plane? :question:

 

But if we got one, definitely the way I would program it!

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mkd Newbie

mkd

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We only program 4x Verticals and one Head/Head 5x.  Both of which are programmed Top WCS Top A0 for 4x and Top WCS  Top B0 C0 for the 5x.

 

Someone mentioned "Tool perspective" earlier, and to me it seems the logic in Mcam would dictate your WCS is always the Top view of your workpiece when the spindle is at (Axis)0?

 

But it confuses me to read that a horizontal is programmed Top WCS Front B0, because the tool is looking at the Front plane? :question:

 

But if we got one, definitely the way I would program it!

well if that sounds quirky and konfusing, wait till you try a turning....or mill-turn

 

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius --- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - Albert Einstein

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The Cathedral Newbie

The Cathedral

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well if that sounds quirky and konfusing, wait till you try a turning....or mill-turn

 

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius --- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - Albert Einstein

 

This.

 

Back is Y is C0. Y moves in the Z, rotate in the right plane for the front, Top is nothing actually but you *must* use it.

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Rocketmachinist Apprentice

Rocketmachinist

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We havn't gotten into programming for it yet but a guy out here in a different shop has a Maho 800c. It is primarily a horizontal but has a vertical spindle that you can spin into place. The only way my brain can keep it strait is to have the Horizontal C0. be in the Front View. Then if you call up the vertical spindle then that will be working on the top view. It would get really confusing if we did the horizontal main spindle view as top and the vertical spindle as back? Just easier to make everything match the world around us vs trying to change our brains to a horizontal world.

 

Deckel-Maho%20MH800C%20Horizontal%20Vert

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crazy^millman Veteran

crazy^millman

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This.

 

Back is Y is C0. Y moves in the Z, rotate in the right plane for the front, Top is nothing actually but you *must* use it.

 

Where getting the post setup correctly and making correct back and bottom planes for Mill/Turning make all the difference. Still works the same as the default backwards planes, but allow you to keep it all straight in your brain.What I have done all the way back to V9 not X9.

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crazy^millman Veteran

crazy^millman

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We havn't gotten into programming for it yet but a guy out here in a different shop has a Maho 800c. It is primarily a horizontal but has a vertical spindle that you can spin into place. The only way my brain can keep it strait is to have the Horizontal C0. be in the Front View. Then if you call up the vertical spindle then that will be working on the top view. It would get really confusing if we did the horizontal main spindle view as top and the vertical spindle as back? Just easier to make everything match the world around us vs trying to change our brains to a horizontal world.

 

Deckel-Maho%20MH800C%20Horizontal%20Vert

 

 

You would want to program that from top. The post will do all the work for you.

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guitar Newbie

guitar

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Horizontal programming for me since I started programming in Mastercam has been TOP WCS and Front view for B0 then rotate from there. I know we have had some long conversations about this method, but was curious how many still old school their programming making the programs where B0 looks like Top in Mastercam. Either by programming it like a Vertical or using Front WCS and Front C-plane for B0?

I do it the same. Top is my WCS orientation and front is B0. I hate when others do it differently. Many people just have no clue how to use WCS. Most horizontal programmers I have seen just program every side as a vertical and then enter the angles in the cnc's work offset page. Drives me nuts.

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crazy^millman Veteran

crazy^millman

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I do it the same. Top is my WCS orientation and front is B0. I hate when others do it differently. Many people just have no clue how to use WCS. Most horizontal programmers I have seen just program every side as a vertical and then enter the angles in the cnc's work offset page. Drives me nuts.

 

Yes really amazing how many people cannot think in 3D space and do multi-axis positioning.

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Rocketmachinist Apprentice

Rocketmachinist

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You would want to program that from top. The post will do all the work for you.

Actually this is the first machine I have seen that uses the Axis Combination setting. I don't know how to change that to make the post read it correctly but every toolpath we have to make sure that it is selected for the correct head. Thats where it would be nice to assingn the axis combination to the work plane and not have it so tied in with the individual tool path.

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Sticky Newbie

Sticky

Posted
Posted

some years ago there was a thread here with a macro to calc actual actual fixture offsets.

 

i think every time the CNC reads a A/B angle it will generate a fixture offset.

 

you can get MC to shift all xyz in the post.

 

either method is based on a pivot point distance to part zero

 

You can get your post to do the work for you and enter all of your offsets in the header of your program.

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After much debate with some other co-workers we I am trying to figure out why horizontal posts are written in the Top Front style of axis combo. Can anyone clarify the reasoning behind this?

 

If memory serves me, they were done that way as a visual aid more than anything.....

 

With Z being the CL of rotation and planes rotating about that, the Front plane is at the operators vantage point as you would be at the machine...

 

They can be flipped it desired to Top/Top like a Vertical

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Müřlıń® Apprentice

Müřlıń®

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After much debate with some other co-workers we I am trying to figure out why horizontal posts are written in the Top Front style of axis combo. Can anyone clarify the reasoning behind this?

I think it is because the very first NC was a vertical mill and not a horizontal.

 

So the first post was written for a vertical mill....

 

You have to look at the evolution....there was a NC machine that ran off a tape that was hand punched.

They had to build the controls logic to run the tape and that took a very long time.

 

Since they already had all the legwork done with the vertical they added to the logic and built a horizontal.

 

They were still punching tapes and the CAD system was just being developed.

 

Once CAD was widespread the machine builders got with the CAD guys and CAM was born...probably from compiling all those 

punched exec tapes from all the controls in service.

 

The CAD developers had to build the post to work with the controls that were used at the time.

 

So they evolved about the same way as the machine builders.  They didn't reinvent the wheel, they added to what they had.

 

So the logical position was to have Z the front because that is how most machines were built.

 

So blame the machine builders....

 

top/top/front makes the most sense today at least for me...

 

And then came along Integrex and totally melted my brain.....lol...

 

Those guys were on crack when they built that sucker....

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Sticky Newbie

Sticky

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I think it is because the very first NC was a vertical mill and not a horizontal.

 

So the first post was written for a vertical mill....

 

You have to look at the evolution....there was a NC machine that ran off a tape that was hand punched.

They had to build the controls logic to run the tape and that took a very long time.

 

Since they already had all the legwork done with the vertical they added to the logic and built a horizontal.

 

They were still punching tapes and the CAD system was just being developed.

 

Once CAD was widespread the machine builders got with the CAD guys and CAM was born...probably from compiling all those 

punched exec tapes from all the controls in service.

 

The CAD developers had to build the post to work with the controls that were used at the time.

 

So they evolved about the same way as the machine builders.  They didn't reinvent the wheel, they added to what they had.

 

So the logical position was to have Z the front because that is how most machines were built.

 

So blame the machine builders....

 

top/top/front makes the most sense today at least for me...

 

And then came along Integrex and totally melted my brain.....lol...

 

Those guys were on crack when they built that sucker....

 

It's called the Cartesian Coordinate System, and it predates NC machines...

 

Aside from that, Horizontals were likely to be the first actual application of NC a machine tool:

 

http://www.cmsna.com/a-brief-history-on-cnc-machining-c-56_68.html

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Newbeeee™ Community Regular

Newbeeee™

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After much debate with some other co-workers we I am trying to figure out why horizontal posts are written in the Top Front style of axis combo. Can anyone clarify the reasoning behind this?

I did some searching here and TheeCNC Apps Guy made a statement saying that if you switch between Verts and Hori's then TOP/TOP programming makes sense.

Purely because it's easier to re-carve a program from one machine to the other.

I read that back a while (originally) all Mcam posts for Horis were TOP/TOP but I can't remember when or why it changed to TOP/FRONT (or even if I read it).

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Müřlıń® Apprentice

Müřlıń®

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Aside from that, Horizontals were likely to be the first actual application of NC a machine tool:

 

http://www.cmsna.com/a-brief-history-on-cnc-machining-c-56_68.html

 

 

Hrm....from the pic of the first NC machine in your link it sure does look like hacked up vertical 28 x 60  to me.... :laughing:

 

 

 

according to wiki....

In 1952, numerical control reached the developmental stage of laboratory reality. The first NC machine tool was a Cincinnati Hydrotel milling machine retrofitted with a scratch-built NC control unit. It was reported in Scientific American,[23] just as another groundbreaking milling machine, the Brown & Sharpe universal, had been in 1862.

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Rocketmachinist Apprentice

Rocketmachinist

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And then came along Integrex and totally melted my brain.....lol...

 

Those guys were on crack when they built that sucker....

 

Now you got me scared. We are looking into getting Integrex or similar machine right now.

 

Shouldn't it be close to the lathe coordinate system.

 

Z+ is the long axis of the machine.

X+ is for the diameter

Y+or - is off center

C is the chuck rotary

B is the Y axis head rotary

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