Random Toolchangers

[chris m]

Greetings

 

Fanuc gurus out there I need an assist, please.

 

I have an Okuma-Howa Millac 438V VMC with a Fanuc 18M control and a 20-tool side-mount swing-arm style toolchanger (that's a lot of hyphens) that randomly assigns tools to open pockets and shuffles them around the carousel as the job progresses and tool changes occur.

 

Of course, you say, what else should it do?

 

The problem is that I have 2 tools in the machine that exceed the maximum tool dia for the machine and if they end up next to each other in the carousel they either: 1) both fall out and land on the table, 2) break the pot that one is in and then that one falls onto the table, or 3) jam the carousel solid requiring a major pain in the butt to free it up.

 

My questions:

 

1) Is there a way to force the machine to put each tool back into the pot that it came out of before getting the next tool?

 

2) Is there a way to set the pot # equal to the tool # globally where we can use one command to reset all 20?

 

My answers, so far:

 

1) If we don't stage tools and call an M6 at the end of each operation the tools should go back where they came from, but if the operator calls up a tool in MDI or bails out in the middle of an operation that will get things all screwed up.

 

2) No, it can only be done individually in the PMC parameters by going to each pot and inputting the corresponding tool #

 

 

Has anybody else had this problem?

 

Is there another way to do this?

 

Thanks

 

C

[Matthew]

I have never done this before, but the thought has crossed my mind. I am not use a Okuma machine, but another (taiwanese) that has a side mount tool changer. One thought that crossed my mind is to reset the tool changer (so the pockets are in proper order) and then only use odd OR even numbered tools. 1,3,5,7,9 etc., that way I don't think your tools would ever be side by side.

 

HTH

[McRae]

Chris,

 

The method that I used was to tool change to an empty or null pocket and then the tool would always come from and be returned to the same pocket. By keeping empty pockets on either side then you would be able to manage this.

 

Again, these threads weave themselves into the fabric that is our forum - that machine was the Makino HMC that I made reference to in another post...

 

Hope you can get this to work. BTW - This adds cycle time to the part so advise the management onions ahead of time...

[Nominal]

On the Okuma's I have with Okuma OSP700M controls, you can get into the ATC POT NO/TOOL NO TABLE. and in there you can set any tool as a "Large" tool and it will always use only that pot position for that tool. In addition you can set them as "Dummy" so it won't ever try and put a tool into those positions. When you designate a tool as large the two pots on either side are set to dummy automatically. I would imagine Fanuc would have a similar function. I would call the people that sold me the machine. Good luck.

[McRae]

With the afinity for patent and copyright infringments, the Okuma and Okuma and Howa brand names are distinct. I learned this lesson with a "Kitamura" lathe that was purchased at auction. The Kitamura USA office swore to me on their mother's graves that they had never built a lathe in their entire existance. Turns out - someone private label manufactured them and sold it with their brandname. Don't even start me up on the Fanuc, GE Fanuc, General Numerics debate...

 

O and H use a fanuc controller and the the tool changer is the limiting factor not the controller here. As the tool change is accomplished from the carosel and the spindle directly - it is a repacement that takes place. If there is an intermediate tool carrier (like on the integrii we have spoken of here - shiver, shiver, shiver) then there is the opportunity to replace the tool in its origional home without an intermediate tool change.

[chris m]

quote:

---

If there is an intermediate tool carrier (like on the integrii we have spoken of here - shiver, shiver, shiver) then there is the opportunity to replace the tool in its origional home without an intermediate tool change

---

This is exactly the problem; if there was a "shifter" pocket like the Integrex, this might be easier.

 

The "change tools to an empty pocket" or "use only odd or even tool #s" are both good suggestions unfortunately it is an 18-tool job in a 20 tool machine so I really can't do this.

 

quote:

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I would imagine Fanuc would have a similar function

---

I was hoping so, too, since lesser machines have that, but, alas, I have found no feature to automatically do what I need. As far as the machine tool rep; no help there.

 

C

 

[ 04-01-2003, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[Rekd™]

There is a way, I'm just not sure the exact method for your controller. I have a HAAS with a 40 tool side mount. Large tools are specified by an L typed into the tool's original pot. This forces the 2 pots on either side of this tool to be set to 0 (zero). The machine will never go to the zero tools. I would assume this is the case with yours. It may be as simple as entering 0 on the 2 pots next to the large tool. If you don't have a manual for the machine, contact the manufacturer.

 

'Rekd teh Big Tool

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

For large tools, on our Mori Seiki's we usually call them 9000's. i.e T9001 T9002, etc...

 

Ff you have a tool that exceeds the single tool diameter and you want it to "stay away" from other tools this will accomplish this. It keeps one pot on each side of the tool empty.

 

There is random which is what your machine is set at and there is the fixed method. Ours are set to fixed and this is a setting in the D Parametes or Possibly the K Parameters.

 

HTH

[Rekd™]

quote:

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Ours are set to fixed

---

Does the arm stay down while it loads the pot for the last tool? Seems it would dramatically increase the tool change time.

 

'Rekd teh confused

[McRae]

quote:

---

I have an Okuma-Howa Millac 438V VMC with a Fanuc 18M control and a 20-tool side-mount swing-arm style toolchanger

---

I still think this is not a program/controller issue. As the tool in the waiting position and the tool in the spindle are directly substituted for each other - how can the carousel be anything but random. The only way for the tools to be defined and called in a unique pocket would be to have the tool chain index while the swing arm was extended and both tools were hanging in space.

 

I think you are stuck with the problem. Wish there were more tricks in the bag...

[Rekd™]

quote:

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The only way for the tools to be defined and called in a unique pocket would be to have the tool chain index while the swing arm was extended and both tools were hanging in space.

---

Not true.

 

You can specify specific pots as being locked. This will ensure no tool ever gets put into the pots on either side of the locked pot, and that the same tool always goes into that pot. This will also create an additional tool change when a tool other than the oversized tool is placed in that pot for staging.

 

Try to stay with me, it gets confusing if you don't pay attention...

 

We have a 40 Pot Turret

T1 = large tool

T2 and T3 regular tools

Pot1 = Locked pot (for T1)

Pot2 and Pot40 are originally indexed as 0

Pot1 is originally indexed as 1

Pot3 and Pot4 have normal tools indexed as 2 and 3 for T2 and T3.

 

Here's what happens..

 

T1 will ONLY EVER GO IN 1 OF 2 PLACES... into Pot1 or in the spindle. Other tools can also go into Pot1 while T1 is in the spindle. When there is another tool in Pot1 and you call a tool change to anything but T1, it will do a tool change to put T1 into Pot1, then do another tool change to put the tool that was in Pot1 away and grab the next tool. Then play resumes as normal, until another tool is put into Pot1.

 

'Rekd teh Confuser

 

[ 04-01-2003, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[chris m]

Rekd

 

I just reread your post and saw that you are talking about a Haas, which I know does what you described above, but did you ever see that function on a Fanuc? I can't find anything in my books that describes this for my machine.

 

The only way I think I can do it is to set all of the pot#s to the tool#s at the beginning of the setup and call the tool in pot#0 (the spindle) tool #0 and then call

 

T0;

M6;

 

at the end of each op. This (I think) will return the tool to the pot it was in before machining. This is going to add about 6 months to tool-change time but at least I don't have a 200 tool mag .

 

C

 

[ 04-01-2003, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[McRae]

quote:

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This will also create an additional tool change when a tool other than the oversized tool is placed in that pot for staging.

---

Aye lad - there's the key...

 

Instead of hard coding a null tool change to an empty pocket, use a safe tool and tool change twice. There are no empty pockets required!

 

Rek'd has now been removed from my alltime top ten JackA$$ List!

[McRae]

Chris,

 

Here is the solution,

 

Tool 1 (Spot Drill) is in the spindle

 

Do Stuff,

 

Tool 2 (Humungoes Tool)

Do Stuff,

 

Tool 1 (Spot Drill)

Wait - Do Nothing, tool change immediatly again.

 

Tool 3 (rest of program)

 

Tool 1 will go into the pot for tool 2, recalling tool 1 after tool 2 will keep the pot from which humungoes tool came from in the next station - hence - go home stays home is maintained. No Muss, No Fuss, No Haas.

 

[ 04-01-2003, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Andrew McRae ]

[Rekd™]

quote:

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but at least I don't have a 200 tool mag

---

LOL! Let me know if your idea works.

 

Considering you have TWO large tools, and only 2 open pots, you may be screwed.

 

Will they fit next to ALL the other tools and just NOT next to each other? If so, how many parts you making.. and what would the odds be that they end up next to each other..?

 

quote:

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Rek'd has now been removed from my alltime top ten JackA$$ List!

---

That's it? Top 10?

 

(I worked so hard for this, too.. can I get a re-count?)

 

*poke Andrew in the eye with finger* "Tag! You're it!"

 

'Rekd teh JackA$$

[Brendan P]

Hey Chris,

You said in another post that you have a matsuura.

I have used a matsuura 1000 (1984)that had an

extra arm on it.(toolchanger)

The tool you take out of the pocket always went

back into the same pocket.

You had to have a dummy tool also put back into

the spindle before shut down.

Does yours have this?

[chris m]

Brendan, we don't have that feature on this machine; just a straight swing arm. I think we have it figured out, though. I'm out of the office for the end for this week so I'll probably try it on Saturday.

 

C

[Stefmeister]

i had a operator coming to me saying that the machine

it has a Fanuc LI200 control on it.

After numerous cycles the machine leaves empty pockets on the carousel although there are tools inside every pocket

no large tools and it has 24 tools. 

then the External alarms are popping up

1008     Wrong T command

, 1007   Wrong T command

 1041    Invalid command

all of the above alarms are because because of it.

 

So big question.... why would the control show empty pockets? 

and how can I fix this problem. is it a parameter or how does the control not see it?

 

[JB7280]

21 hours ago, Stefmeister said:

i had a operator coming to me saying that the machine

it has a Fanuc LI200 control on it.

After numerous cycles the machine leaves empty pockets on the carousel although there are tools inside every pocket

no large tools and it has 24 tools. 

then the External alarms are popping up

1008     Wrong T command

, 1007   Wrong T command

 1041    Invalid command

all of the above alarms are because because of it.

 

So big question.... why would the control show empty pockets? 

and how can I fix this problem. is it a parameter or how does the control not see it?

 

I find it amusing, that a child who was born when this thread was STARTED would have become a full grown adult a week or two before you resurrected it!!!!

[crazy^millman]

I joined the Forum in 2003.

[cncappsjames]

I joined the forum a month after it started.

Regarding tools, pots, etc...

I have found that some machine tool builders (MTB's) require tool changes to be M06 Tx calls as opposed to Tx M06 calls.

When the M06 is required first it is usually because the machine needs certain variables populated prior to the tool change, which could explain incorrect data. It's all in how the MTB's do their ladder, data tables, and MACRO variables etc...

HTH

[Leon82]

My old place had a kitamura with a non random changer. There was always an empty spot with no pot. It would unhook and rotate the magazine while in the pot waiting position to the ejecting tools position. 

 

I'm the maintenance menu you can unlatch the pot and it will drop down into the machine. I then reinstalled it backwards and sheared the arm off the pot. Luckily I just had to buy a pot and stick it back in. 

 

It was a nice pallet changer. If something went wrong you could handle feed it back or estop it and push it untill the apc home position light lit up.