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neurosis

CNC dropping partnership with Volumill?

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Nice. I was just informed by Celeritive that CNC is dropping their partnership with volumill and that if we decide to continue upgrading mastercam that our seat of volumill will no longer work.

 

 

This has been a great week of frustration with me and Mastercam.

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Nice. I was just informed by Celeritive that CNC is dropping their partnership with volumill and that if we decide to continue upgrading mastercam that our seat of volumill will no longer work.

 

 

I don't see how that could possibly benefit anybody? I'd love to hear the reasoning behind this. People don't pay extra for Dynamic and Optirough, so it's not like Volumill is hurting CNC Software's cash flow. If anything, NOT supporting Volumill will hurt maintenance sales, since people who depend on Volumill will have no reason to move to X6.

 

If anything, Mastercam should be courting Volumill extensively now that Volumill is about to be released for NX, effectively negating any toolpathing advantage that MC has over NX. Or perhaps that's the rub?

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You can get volumill with bobcad if you want, or get their standalone product. When they approached me to Rep their software I chose not to cause for the money I saw no competitive advantage for my customers. I also looked at all the third parties over the years that have come and gone and did not want to go down that road. (again)

 

Maybe cnc's deal was that they came out with a standalone product which would make them a competitor. Who knows? I do know my mastercam customers are eating everyone else's lunch without it ;)

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You can get volumill with bobcad if you want, or get their standalone product. When they approached me to Rep their software I chose not to cause for the money I saw no competitive advantage for my customers. I also looked at all the third parties over the years that have come and gone and did not want to go down that road. (again)

 

Maybe cnc's deal was that they came out with a standalone product which would make them a competitor. Who knows? I do know my mastercam customers are eating everyone else's lunch without it ;)

 

I don't know enough about Volumill's standalone product to know if it does the same stuff as the MC add-on with regards to 3D work. Out of the box 2D dynamic milling is awesome with MC, but for 3D stuff, Volumill and Cimco HSM are LEAPS ahead of Optirough.

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Here's the Stand Alone Reference Guide

I would think they've give their Mastercam customers a rollover to the stand alone version..

other wise, you investment in Volumill is dead money.

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Please correct me if I am wrong, and I mean that statement:

 

My understanding and experience with the 2D high speed paths such as dynamic and peel mill are: These are Trochoid tool paths. If that statement is correct, many CAM systems have that capability, NX and Esprit are two that I know of.

 

I have had very good success with the MasterCAM 2D High Speed paths and I am not knocking them at all, but I don’t believe this is new technology, or am I wrong?

 

 

An NX has some very efficent tool paths as well, so does Esprit (as bizzare as it is).

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google volumill and watch some of the videos that pop up.. these are not trochoidial toolpaths

check out their wesite and the feeds and speeds charts too

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these are not trochoidial toolpaths

 

 

Volumill?, MC?, or both?

 

I will check out the videos Tom

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Maybe we have a different understanding of Trochoidal tool paths? I watched some videos and they look Trochoidal to me. They are basically all side mill paths at consistent volume, right?

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the theory is the same, but there is a world of difference between an old school trochoidal toolpath looping through a slot

and a Mastercam's dynamic toolpaths, volumill 2 and 3d or Cimco's adaptive clearing.

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All that I can say is that Volumill's strategy is very different from dynamic 2d. I have great luck with both tool paths. There are areas that volumill excel over dynamic and vise versa. I have much better luck using volumill for smaller diameter cutters.

 

I am licensed for the 3d version of volumill. Optirough is not even close to volumill for 3d roughing. I can only hope that volumill will work throughout X5 and its MU's. If not then it is a very sad day.

 

Im not 100% sure of what is going on and whether it be CNC that made the decision to drop volumill, or volumills decision to pull out of MC but the letter that I received led me to believe that it was CNC that dropped volumill.

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Guest CNC Apps Guy 1
...CNC is dropping their partnership with volumill

 

Could it be that there is something on the horizon that is comparable coming out of CNC in the future?

 

When buying 3rd Party Developed Applications there is ALWAYS a danger that the partnership will dissolve. There's only been one developer that has stood the test of time... Moldplus. I rember using it in V6 IIRC.

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On the Volumill website they still write integrated solution for Mastercam, but when you go to the download site it's no longer possible to download the chook version. I checked last week and here the link was still there.

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Could it be that there is something on the horizon that is comparable coming out of CNC in the future?

 

 

That would be my guess.

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Guest

3rd party developers have come and gone for various reasons along the way.

 

It's one of the problems with 3rd party add-ons

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I can only hope that volumill will work throughout X5 and its MU's.

If it runs in X5 it will run in MU1.

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This makes me wonder if it is only a matter of time before Cimco's Adaptive Clearing will be dropped as well.

 

There were some things about volumill that made it indispensable. Things like the ability to actually define geometry at stock not just a containment boundary. Actually being able to tell the system that it is STOCK. Check Surfaces that are not just defined as drive surfaces. I doubt that mastercam will EVER have these things incorporated in to their optirough tool path. And unless optirough includes some kind of stock recognition in the next release we lose a very valuable tool as optirough doesnt have this ability, and sorry if this is a harsh opinion, but mastercams SHS rest rough doesnt make a pimple on the xxxx of volumill for rest roughing. It constantly over engages the tool and there are no settings that prevent this so you are forced to work around it.

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the theory is the same, but there is a world of difference between an old school trochoidal toolpath looping through a slot

and a Mastercam's dynamic toolpaths, volumill 2 and 3d or Cimco's adaptive clearing.

 

Tom, help me understand the difference, I am not seeing it

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Trochoidal toolpaths are simple.. they loop through slots and are available in some pocketing routines to eliminate the first full diameter pass.

you set a stepover and an entry radius and that's all there is..

this is best illistrated by Mastercam's peel mill toolpath or the "trochoidal cuts" option in the high speed pocket routine

Cimco Adavptive Clearing and Volumill are in their 5th or 6th generation now.

The principal is still the same ... fast light radial stepovers with full depth tool engagement.

They are intelligent toolpaths.. they recognise stock, adapt to tight corners, adjust the depth of cut to accomidate steep

and shallow walls. They contain logic to make rapid retract vrs stay down and feed decisons.

They contain logic to adjust the radial and depth stepovers based on tight corner conditions.

They contain logic to prevent excessive tool engagement at all times.

Cimco's product is called "Adaptive Clearing" which pretty much say it all.. cause that's what it does.

I may get some arguement with this statement, but I beleive the Cimco developers are the guys who invented this stuff.

Comparing trochoidal milling to today's adaptive/dynamic toolpaths is like comparing my grandfather's

hand cranked calculator to today' modern CAD/CAM software.. yes they both crunch numbers

but that's where the similarities end.

If memory serves, you are running Mastercam level 1 so Mastercam's offering in this class of toolpath are

not available to you. Mastercam is still playing catchup to Volumill and Cimco but they are getting better.

I think many people will be very pleased with what they see in X6.

To the best of my knowledge, these toolpaths are not availble in NX or Catia

If you look at Volumills's website.. they say Volumill for Seimmens and Catia will be available in the first quarter of

2011. IF NX/Catia already had these toolpaths, why would Volumill invest in building add-ons??

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Tom, in my other post I thought you were saying that MC paths where all this way, like peel mill etc. So now i am confused, are saying paths in mill level 1 are not to be compared with volumill?

 

I only have experince with the paths in mill level 1 and other systems and thats why I said I cant see the difference. I certainly understand the difference with constant volume and corner control

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I checked Mastercam's website to see what's in a Level 1 seat.

Mastercam's 2D dynamic milling is comparable to Volumill's 2D package.

You will get many opinions as to which one is better.. I don't have enough experience

with either to have a legitimate opinion so I won't give one.

Your Level 1 seat has nothing even remotely close to the Volumill 3D package or the Cimco HSM Module.

If you're curious down load the Volumill package for s free 15 day trial.

 

 

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I may get some arguement with this statement, but I beleive the Cimco developers are the guys who invented this stuff.

 

Yes the Cimco guys did develop "Adaptive Clearing" and now CNC has copied it with Dynamic Mill and OptiRough.

 

they say Volumill for Seimmens and Catia will be available in the first quarter of2011. IF NX/Catia already had these toolpaths, why would Volumill invest in building add-ons??

 

I don't see Catia being mentioned as a integrated solution only Siemens NX.

 

But when Volumill gets sacked, Cimco HSM Performance Pack might as well as it contains Adaptive Clearing and "SHS style" toolpaths making it "compeditor toolpaths"

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Tom, I am always curious and eager to learn, so I will download the trial. Thanks

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I don't see Catia being mentioned as a integrated solution only Siemens NX.

My mistake.. it was Espirt and Hypermill

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