Blade Expert

[Watcher]

15 years ago something like Blade Expert was science fiction. Today we're whining cause there is

no bull nose support. I can remember writing BASIC do loops to mill a simple pocket on a CAM systems with no mouse,

64K of RAM and a 110K 8" floppy drive for storage. I get frustrated with MC all the time, but I stand in awe

of the progress I've seen in the last 20 years... and hope I can stay around to see what the next 20 years bring.

 

 

One thing I love about this field is that it ALWAYS weeds out the BS artists.

The machine, the cutters and the the metal are uncompromising judges. They don't repsond to BS,

they don't even hear it. They dance to gcode..... or not.

 

G,

 

I agree you with that BE is science fiction compared with how it used to be... but it's important to put all cards in the table... CNC came here putting all bets in their product... we'll, as you said, what really matters is if the G-Code will dance and will be fine not only from a mathematical perspective but also if the tool will last, if the surface finish will be Ok, if the cutting time is Ok... If you get a broken tool on an impeller, it does not matter if the tool vectors were nice or if the aircut was reduced... it's a failure anyway...

 

Try to rough and finish a 12" Iconel blade on a MillTurn with a ball nose... or in an impeller if you want a BE dedicated geometry as example... our turbo machinery division developed 20 years ago dedicated algorithms to automate this in NX using bull mills... since NX 6 Siemens has been developing a bunch of toolpaths and dedicated algorithms for us... and many of them get the job done easily and with ball nose support...

 

So, I think that I agree with people here saying BE is overpriced and overpromissed... If I had to put myself in the shoes of people buying it and then figure out no bull nose is supported I would call some names... I sure would...

 

I agree it's a great tool for people doing cylinder heads though...

[gcode]

There is no doubt that BE needs bull nose support, and I''m sure it is in the works.

 

I don't build what you guys call blisks, but I do a bunch of impellers, up to Ø72".

 

They are pretty flat and the vanes don't have much kick to them.

 

They are dead simple compared to the Blade Expert sample,but massive amounts of material

 

come off them. The biggest start as Ø72" x 14" disks and 65-7% of the material is gone

 

by the time they are done. There is no way I would ever rough these with a ball nose endmill

 

I use Ø1" to 2" Sandvik button cutters so Blade Expert is not an option.

 

edit... the blades are also flat enough that they can be finished with a swarf cut so the fancy Blade Expert

finishing paths are not necessary. I have found the new 5X toolpaths very useful for finishing the floor fillets and such

[mayday]

Well, that sums it up

[mkd]

 

 

One thing I love about this field is that it ALWAYS weeds out the BS artists.

The machine, the cutters and the the metal are uncompromising judges. They don't repsond to BS,

they don't even hear it. They dance to gcode..... or not.

 

love it

you just heard it from THE MAN

[TMozzone]

People are strange, when your a stranger.

[K2csq7]

Faces look ugly, when your alone...

 

I have no use for this BE you all speak of, but I will say the service CNC is offering with this multi million $ add on seem to be really good. They will come to your shop & get you up and going... machine model.... post mods.... the fact that they will go out in the field and help you work with you to get up and running is great.

 

James can make a space shuttle from a pile of tree bark in less than an hr. Just put a USC t-shirt on the end of a stick & hold it in front of him!

 

We all know G-code cant dance... though it would be fun to watch him try!!!

 

Kudos to CNC for the customer support offering & nice to see some confidence out of them for once!

[Tyler Robertson]

When you're looking at dedicated impeller/blisk software the price gets.. astronomical. We have customers that have spent many times the amount of a full multiaxis mastercam seat just for impeller/blade machining software. Granted it does a great job, but you pay for it.

 

yes I know many people get by with mastercam and other 'off the shelf' cam products that might do a great job, but the total cycle time has to be taken into account, or how much up-front development was put into the software. We have some customers who have done some amazing things with 'simple' cam, but they also have had a full-time software engineer develop the plugins over the course of 6 months..

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

James can make a space shuttle from a pile of tree bark in less than an hr. Just put a USC t-shirt on the end of a stick & hold it in front of him!

Actually, I need two matchsticks and a cup of water for some binder... tree bark by itself is a little dry.

[Mic]

When you're looking at dedicated impeller/blisk software the price gets.. astronomical. We have customers that have spent many times the amount of a full multiaxis mastercam seat just for impeller/blade machining software. Granted it does a great job, but you pay for it.

 

yes I know many people get by with mastercam and other 'off the shelf' cam products that might do a great job, but the total cycle time has to be taken into account, or how much up-front development was put into the software. We have some customers who have done some amazing things with 'simple' cam, but they also have had a full-time software engineer develop the plugins over the course of 6 months..

 

Sounds like NREC. I once heard a pricetag around 100k USD for the full MAX-PAC bundle. For that much you can almost get a Level 3 Multiaxis and a VF-2TR to run the job on

[mayday]

In case anyone is wondering. this is a scan report from blade runner. this is a single blade that after brazing into an inner/outer bland with up to 50+ more blades makes up 1 stage for an engine. It's a lot more involved than just slapping on some toolpath and saying I'm done

[Newbeeee™]

In case anyone is wondering. this is a scan report from blade runner....

I guess I haven't seen him in any films lately so you gotta dooo what you gotta dooo to pay the mortgage

[JAMMAN]

Well as of Wednesday of next week I will be full blown net hasped, mill level 3, lathe and some training (finally some real training). We are going to do eval code on 5 axis simply to soften the blow and realistically because it is going to take Calmotion 3 to 4 weeks to deliver our extra 2 axis's.

 

In short "I'm baaaaakkkkkk".

 

Once we get the rest of the equipment then we will try the blade expert but it looks like we might be one of the first hand full to use it so this is going to be a major adventure.

[JAMMAN]

Just read the rest of the book... er... posts in this thread, good stuff!

 

Anyway I have spoken with Gene via old fashioned telephone, looks like between Fastech, CNC software and the unstoppable force called the Mastercam forum there will be plenty of support. And I don't even have to ask for a post.

 

Man was that sticker shock, post development. I can remember paying less for 2 seats of V7 level 1 back in the day.

[Joe788]

What kinda machine, Jamman?

[JAMMAN]

I'm afraid it is a Fadal VMC15, old but never used if that makes sense. No notable wear on anything... came from a school. We are kind of proving a theory, if it works out we will get something nicer. We don't need to make wheels fast, we just need to make them at all.

[Watcher]

By the way, this is one of the coolest impellers I've ever seen:

 

[Mic]

By the way, this is one of the coolest impellers I've ever seen:

 

 

Taken directly from NREC's website But yes it looks nice.

 

Francis turbines might sometimes be more complex to machine than impellers

[Watcher]

Taken directly from NREC's website But yes it looks nice.

 

Yes, I took it from there... and thanks for sharing NREC, I didn't know about them before... really cool to learn about a new solution...

 

The part on the video I saw it at EMO last year at Siemens booth... very cool too...

[Joe788]

Mic, what brand machine is that in the Youtube video? (With the washing machine door).

[Mic]

Mic, what brand machine is that in the Youtube video? (With the washing machine door).

 

It's an Alzmetall GS 650/5-FDT with Siemens 840D controller

http://www.alzmetall.de/alzmetall/index.php?id=gs650-5-t0

 

They make some really nice machines. Much more rigid than Hermle and other Gantry+trunion style 5X.

[Mic]

Yes, I took it from there... and thanks for sharing NREC, I didn't know about them before... really cool to learn about a new solution...

 

The part on the video I saw it at EMO last year at Siemens booth... very cool too...

 

NREC is specialized within multiblade stuff. Their cam solution MAX-PAC can only machine impellers, blisks and shrouded version of these 2. But it should be really powerful.

 

A friend of mine is machining these impellers.

http://www.maperformance.com/rehost/doublebat_2.jpg

[JAMMAN]

Is that the "Bat mo wheel"? What industry is he machining them for?

[Guyinthedesert]

By the way, this is one of the coolest impellers I've ever seen:

 

 

Any chance of posting the model for it?

[Sticky]

It's an Alzmetall GS 650/5-FDT with Siemens 840D controller

http://www.alzmetall.de/alzmetall/index.php?id=gs650-5-t0

 

They make some really nice machines. Much more rigid than Hermle and other Gantry+trunion style 5X.

 

They look pretty nice. I've only ever seen their drill presses in the USA though. But those were really nice as well. Does anyone sell them here?

[JAMMAN]

Having drawn a few of those, I don't see any advantage to that design or how it would move air any better than a simpler design, it must be for some specific purpose or a specific RPM or it is pumping something other than air...

 

I'm sure you can't post a model but do you have a compressor map?