Looking for a Matsuura MX520 model for Machine Simulation

[crazy^millman]

Well what is the approach to the work you are getting? Can you do it faster and with less operations having the right machine. It is not as much about the machine to me as it is the use of that machine. How does the process support using it? If you spend all the money for a machine like that and your work is lathe parts not a good investment, but if you can get work that supports the machine then you can do it faster better and quicker. Yes the machine may cost more, but if run right will produce parts much cheaper than people seem to think buying a bunch of cheap machines and doing a bunch of operations on part will. You have to pay over head on all that equipment and salaries for all those people to run them. How much does that cost? How much time is being spend on set-ups and other things when a machine like this can do so much more. Cheaper is some times over looked when it comes to investment in machines. Yes people want lower prices, but the right customers will also want good quality work. Finding the balance between quality, price and what the market will bear is always the hardest part of doing business. If you have a machine that will do a part in 2 operation in 22 minutes and 6 machines that will be needed to produce the same part in 45 minutes per part. What is the real cost? Funny people say well we only paid $80k for these 6 machines. Okay how much are the salaries for those 6 machines? How much is the tooling for all of these machines? How much is the power? How much the other cost that go into running those 6 machines? That is the total cost of having those 6 machines to do the job the one machine can do? Can those 6 machines run light out? Then right there are some big minus to the 6 machine and major pluses to the one machine. Look at the un-captured cost with the 6 machines. Taking parts back and forth to inspection? Waiting on a 1st article? Programming for 6 machines? Setup for 6 machines? Tear down for 6 machines? Coolant for 6 machines? etc... yes you have 6 spindles but how often do all 6 spindles cut chips all day? Take a Mam or a cell system if they are set up correctly they can see 150+ a week of up time. Yes with 6 machines using 40 hours a week should see 240 hours, but do you really? I say you are lucky unless running the same part day in and day out lucky to get 150hrs to 200hrs. Again what are the real cost how many people sit down and really factor all the time into job when doing job costing? or time studies? Time is money and when time is not accounted for to the minute on every machine you are not getting the real cost!!!

Sorry, but I think it is awesome he has got this machine and it is even better when someone comes along and supports my case invest in the right equipment and it will yield results. What people forget is the person programming is the right person, the company with it is the right company and the people running it are the right people. Yes the customers are important, but work is out there to be got, question is what are people doing to get it and how are they going about getting it to support the machine money was invested into to get? Yes customers have no clue about machines, but I have showed enough customers around the many different shops I have worked in. When people see new expensive equipment making crazy off the wall parts they are more likely to give that company work verse the same old shop that has a line of VTC 3 axis machines cutting widgets.

Just crazy I know, but what I have been called my whole life.

[Mick]

Hey what do I know right, I've only been doing this for 20 years after all.

 

If it is any consolation, I've been doing this for about 22 years, and no-one listens to me either.

 

The Matsuuras are nice machines. We've considered a MAM72 63V as well. Surprisingly, their prices are quite competitive.

[GnoGueyJose]

True, BUT you have to have the right customers I think.

Most of the customers over here really don't care (or understand) what machine it's made on. They just want cheaper prices.

But when you can do a part in 1 setup or 2 max, that lowers the cost without even trying. Using common tooling and common workholding between jobs and it's called zero setup. If you can't make money on a job approaching things that way, not sure what to say. Lange vises and that crimper they sell just kills it.

[Newbeeee™]

But when you can do a part in 1 setup or 2 max, that lowers the cost without even trying. Using common tooling and common workholding between jobs and it's called zero setup. If you can't make money on a job approaching things that way, not sure what to say. Lange vises and that crimper they sell just kills it.

Ron - never need to appologise. I'm with you on what you say.

Jose - yes I agree and we use Lang vices.

 

The vast majority of our work is vacuum or plate type. Side 1, flip and done (except treat/wire insert/paint etc). Some also has peripheral work. So Lang vice on 4th axis to get a 'poor mans hori' set-up. All or chevalier's are grid plate tables with the grid shift (XYZ) set so fixtures can go on any machine and the datums are in the program (G10). So load and go. All programs will also run in all machines, we just have to remove/add the tool pre-select in the prog for the vmc/robodrill differences (yes I know about stage tool in the post). 4th axis are on riser plates. Exact same centre height and dowel holes in the base so they go straight on the table in known positions as well.

We doubled the factory march last year (2012 seems so long ago ) and I looked at just about every way possible to improve machine efficiency on what we do. Adding a robot to the robodrill, adding a pallet changer to it, and in the end the price of a pallet I got another robodrill sat side by side. So yes, 2x spindles instead of 1x twin pallet.

I went to matsuura UK open-house and looked at the mams and H300 . All VERY nice but big bucks for a job shop with repeat work, but we never know how much and when.

I had an offer on a mats 405 5pallet 15k spindle (used) but am sooooooooooooooo peed off of doing 6 1/2 day weeks and 12>16 hr days (must spend too much time on here ) I really couldn't face the learning curve and all the extra load this would have put on me.

So as I said we bought another robodrill and chevalier vmc, and have ended up with 10 cnc's and still the 3 (+ wifey 1/2 time) of us.

It works well but I'm still doing too many hours. And yes, I know if I could wave a magic wand and instantly have a machine landed/configured/tooled/set AND know how to use it, it would cut my hours down. But...

The other thing was being able to sleep at night. We started the company in 2005 and built it as we have gone. The 1st machine had a bit of finance on it as we couldn't afford it outright (it was a new chevalier vmc), and then we bought outright as we have gone. So we have 4x chevalier's with 4th axis (all new), 2x robodrills (used but both had done around 12 months work before being repo'd), 2x king-rich turning centres (new) and a prototrak lathe and mill (new). Also 1x cmm with cad verification and 2x seats of mastercam.

If we had financed, we wouldn't have been here come 2008, and I am still very wary of things. Yes we are still busy (we always have been), but the last thing I am going to be is a slave to the banks/finance company. B4astards the lot of 'em

[Aeroguy]

Seems pretty high. I would hope that would include taxes, freight rigging, installation, etc....

 

Thanks though.

 

Yeah that is pretty high. It's even worse when you take into account the fact he got the "End of Year Special" too.

I'm pretty sure he got screwed, and I have no sympathy for him.

[Ron Branch @ 5th Axis]

Neewbee on that note you are 1000% correct and your story is the biggest reason I never opened a shop. I am to die hard and too much a get it done kind of person to own a company. I would probably kill myself in 5 years if I had my own place. I love my family and spending time with them, but if I had my own company I would live there. I respect your work and your efforts and will say you are doing it the right way as well if not you would not be in business. Proof is in the pudding and you are doing it so that speaks for itself.

[Newbeeee™]

Ron - thanks for the kind words and I can assure you it isn't easy. It is a 'lifestyle' choice to work for yourself, and I do sometimes wonder if it would be better to go and work for someone.

But I like what I do, and the future is in my hands and not some idiot bean counter.

My background is drawing office (cad jockey ) and my apprenticeship was R+D machining, so I knew how to make things on manuals but had absolutely no clue on the cnc and programming side.

But I cannot say thank you enough to you, Gcode, JP, Colin G (although he's now 'over the fence' ), James (and it really is such a pity he's not around anymore) and loads of other guys here who have helped me learn and understand the programming and cnc side of things.

[GoetzInd]

I'm with you 100% Ron. That was my main reasoning for selling out and joining up with another company. Even though I do not have any wife/kids, it was really negatively affecting my life. My situation now is a lot better. Still a pretty big say in things but no administration BS. Sometimes it sucks not being able to dictate how everything is done company direction wise but I think it's worth it.

 

Mike

[mkd]

http://www.machinerynetwork.com/buy/detail.cfm?inventoryid=31798

 

>200k

matsuura

2 in stock

[Joe788]

http://www.machinery...ventoryid=31798

 

>200k

matsuura

2 in stock

 

What kind of sadist would paint over the nice soothing Matsuura blue, with....whatever this is:

 

 

 

For those unfamiliar - this is what it's supposed to look like:

 

[GnoGueyJose]

I always thought that the point was to take flattering pictures of something you want to sell. All I see is abuse and neglect.

[Mic]

Joe788

 

That picture is from a customer of my former work.

 

Berget in Norway. http://www.berget.no...Itemid=99〈=

 

They have this 3VS, a 3VM ( 90 pallet's ) and a Fastems FMS with a 63V and 4 Mori NH.

[GnoGueyJose]

So Mic, has she been rode hard and put away wet?