Renishaw Calibration Probe Macro

[cncchipmaker]

I want to write a probe calibration macro for a 15M Fanuc control. Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated and samples would be a plus.

[crazy^millman]

Go buy it from Renishaw and be done with it. It cost a little bit of money, but well worth the investment to have their macros on any machine with their stuff on it.

[GoetzInd]

Go buy it from Renishaw and be done with it. It cost a little bit of money, but well worth the investment to have their macros on any machine with their stuff on it.

 

+1. The inspection plus macros are a must IMO.

 

Mike

[Guest]

Go buy it from Renishaw and be done with it. It cost a little bit of money, but well worth the investment to have their macros on any machine with their stuff on it.

 

+1 yup.

 

Write one if you need something out of the box that doesn't exist

[cncchipmaker]

Thanks guys, unfortunately I have to customize. I need to set xy error, set a 2mm ball on a 1.25 ring, and check xz grid. All of our machines are gridded to the center of rotation.

 

[crazy^millman]

All easily done with the standard out of the box Macros. You set your X,Y,Z position and it goes through and runs the process of checking the probe at many different angles it then decides what give the most accurate result and then stores that in the parameters of the machine. Then when you go to the probing cycles all the error is already accounted for. The only other way to do it will be to do you cosine error calculations or every hit you make to the tangent of the contact of the surface you are hitting. Once you understand how that error changes from contact point to contact point along with the kinematics of the machine taking the last time it was error mapped to know what is going at ever possible place of contact in the machine you are about 10% done. I do not know your background and I can only judge your ability from 2 sentences, but in those 2 sentence you have not laid out an example of a macro you are trying to make work, you have not told us what the process is not your NIST traceable artifact you will be using for collecting the information. You have not said if the this is a Vertical or Horizontal machine you are looking to do this with. You have left us to guess what you do and do not know about your understanding of the process. I hate the idea of people using a machine tool to inspect parts. Completely off their rocker if you ask me. I say look to an outside system to collect information and let the machine do what it was designed to do make parts. You want to do a spot check here and there, set and offset or other things great use it for that purpose and that purpose alone. Inspection on the machine is one of the buzz words that to many people never do the correct research on. I had a person few years ago come up at a show and talk to me about how great it is and using a CMM is stupid and he has it figured out. With three questions I knew he had no clue what he was talking about.

 

Question #1 How often is the machine error mapped with a laser ball bar system?

Question #2 What is your NIST Traceable Artifact that you are using to check your daily accuracy with?

Question #3 How after do you check the probe on the machine?

 

He looked at me like I was crazy. I then asked him how minutes a day is the machine checking parts? He told me 30 minutes and I told him he was crazy to throw a $100 a day away on his machine inspecting parts. He told me he did not have a shop rate and it did not matter. He hated his inspection department and did not care. Again tells me a poor idea of what a Quality Department is about. He asked me how did I come up with that amount. I told him taking an average of $100/hr shop rate he is throwing an $100 a day away. He then to show he was right in his action argued I was doing my math wrong and it was only costing him $50 a day no big deal. I show him my math for very hour wasted not making parts a machine is costing you 2 hours of time. One hour not making the part and one hour that cannot be put on the next part. So yes your shop rate is $100 and hour and yes you only lose 30 minutes a day, but it really costs you 5 hours a week in lost production. In one year that is real money. I then asked him how many machines he was doing this on in his shop he told me 10 machines. Now we are talking about 50 hours a week and using just 50 weeks we are talking about 250 hours and at $100/hr that is $250k a year and you are using a process that is not being independently checked that you have with a CMM or some other inspection device.

 

All I am asking for his help with a macro why are you picking on me might be going through your brain and sorry I am not trying to pick on you. I am hopefully educating you on these is so much more to this equation than just a macro. The question is to open ended and leaves me with more questions that it does with answers to provide you. I love Macros, but I think you would be suprised what the cost would be for the macros and the power they give you on the machine. With that said can you answer my 3 questions and say you 100% understand when I ask those 3 questions? I am not the smartest guy on this forum far from it, but I have a lot of experience and your question leaves me to think you could use different help than just some understanding of a macro. If you have thought all of this out and have a way to analyze the deviations of your collected data back to a nominal value to see what it is then awesome, but nothing in your question talked about you do. Do you have quality process in place that allows you to be sure your machine is working to the accuracy of the measurements you are going to be taking? I might be talking to the choir here and if I am then I apologize for that, but I like to help on this forum and if my answers will help someone else and not you then please see it that way and not as my trying to pick on your or belittle you. I am just trying to help.

 

If anyone needs help in this area I will be glad to be of assistance just let me know how I can help.

[cncchipmaker]

I have a lot of experience with macros and probes. What I lack is understanding what I need to do to adjust the probe to set itself to a bored hole, all the ring is for is reference and not inspection, thats why they make dial bores. I am just looking to do simple pickups for G54. Right now its for a horizontal Mitsui 15M control and right now the guys are running a complex macro that does not work. We can write to #100 and #500 variables. The machine does get ball bar tested and you are spot on about not using them like cmms, thats what cmms are for. Thanks you again.

 

[YoDoug®]

It really sounds like you don't understand why you need to calibrate the probe. When you calibrate a probe it stores the data in variables. That stored data is then used by the macros when doing calculations. That is why you should be using the calibration macros from the same company that you intend to use the inspection macros. Not all probe companies (Ren, Blum, etc) store and use the calibration data the same way. If you intend to use Renishaw macros for part inspection and pat location pick-up then you should use Renishaw macros for Calibration. It is really very easy. Position the probe in the center of the ring at the depth to calibrate and then run the O9802 and O9804 macros. There is also one for length cal but I can't recall the number right now.

[crazy^millman]

Good luck in your work. Be cool to see what you come up with.

[cncchipmaker]

I know that all of our macro cycles use #501 X adjustement and #502 Y adjustment as variables. There are a couple of others but these are the main two I am concerned with. Would this work?

 

EX:

%

O0001

(BORE A 1 INCH HOLE AT X0Y0)

(THEN PROBE)

T120M06

(T120 = PROBE)

G0X0Y0

G43Z5.H120

Z.1

G1Z-.2F50.

G65P9914D1.Q1.R.2

#501=#135

#502=#136

IF#501LT.0002]GOTO1

#501=#501+[-[#501]]

N1IF#502LT.0002]GOTO2

#502=#502+[-[#502]]

N2

M30

 

#135 AND #136 are what the probe spits out as error.

[YoDoug®]

A couple of quick thoughts on your macro.

 

1. #501=#501+[-[#501]] will just zero out #501.

2. #135 and #136 in use with a 9914 Bore probe routine are the measured coordinate in X and Y relative to the Work offset.

3. The #135, #136 and the error amounts in #140, #141 are after factoring whatever calibration data is in #500, #501, #502, #503.

 

Your macro will not calibrate the probe, it will erase any calibration data in #501 and #502.

[cncchipmaker]

Thanks, after looking at the program again you are right it will just set everything back to zero. So all I have to do really is split the difference of #135, #136 or #140, #141 and add it to #501 & #502 or should I just change the sign of #501 & #502 after setting it? What I am trying to do with the macro is get the error #135 and #136 to be less than .0002 after probing, does this seem accurate enough?

[Sticky]

Thanks guys, unfortunately I have to customize. I need to set xy error, set a 2mm ball on a 1.25 ring, and check xz grid. All of our machines are gridded to the center of rotation.

 

I don't understand why you are customizing either? Are all of your probing routines custom as well? I'd personally just run the Renishaw inspection plus and be done with it.

 

It really sounds like you don't understand why you need to calibrate the probe. When you calibrate a probe it stores the data in variables. That stored data is then used by the macros when doing calculations. That is why you should be using the calibration macros from the same company that you intend to use the inspection macros. Not all probe companies (Ren, Blum, etc) store and use the calibration data the same way. If you intend to use Renishaw macros for part inspection and pat location pick-up then you should use Renishaw macros for Calibration. It is really very easy. Position the probe in the center of the ring at the depth to calibrate and then run the O9802 and O9804 macros. There is also one for length cal but I can't recall the number right now.

 

For Renishaw inspection plus:

 

9801 is used to establish the probe length in its tool shank.

9802 is used to establish the stylus off-centre values.

9803 is used to establish the stylus ball radius values. It is suitable for all

measuring cycles except O9821, O9822 and O9823.

9804 is used to establish the vector stylus ball radius values. It is suitable

for all measuring cycles, including O9821, O9822 and O9823.

[cncchipmaker]

We do not have access to the 9800 programs. The probe calibration programs have been individualized for the different machines here at work and I am just trying to learn how to do it myself. Sure, we could just hire some person to do it for us but I want to learn how to do it myself. What I am asking is there anyone out there that knows what math is invlovled in setting #500,#501,#502,#503? I am very aware that there is an easier way, but that is not how I do things.

[Ron Branch @ 5th Axis]

Yes I am aware, but since it would be given away trade secrets Renishaw makes people pay for I will not give their method and process away. The math is just take the cosine error of the hit and using a mathematical process to figure it out and then use it as part of their probing process. That is the trick with probing it understanding there is error figuring out what it is and then adjusting for it when collecting the data. People have been fighting that problem since the 1st parts were ever made. Probes are a way to collect data and like I said before once you understand what the error is and how to use it and analyze it to not have it effect your real condition then you have solved your problem. That is the reason they charge people for the macros they have spent many many years perfecting the process and do a very good job at it. What I suspect is going on here is someone does not want to spend the money and you have either decided to figure it out on your own which is awesome to see or someone has stuck you with figuring it out to save money. Thing is unless you get it right you are opening yourself up to be responsible for every part ever measured by the process you have to make work. Any errors or problems in your math or process makes you carry a lot of responsibility on you. I am okay with being responsible for things, but if I have not got to carry more because there is an easier way I am all for it. Again best of luck in what you are trying to do, but seems like you are being stuck with things getting the right stuff would not make you be stuck with. Again great you want to learn, but these types of Macros are some of the most advanced types of macros I have ever messed with and seen used on machines. You can figure all of this out you need to be asking for a raise I think it was 50 engineers at Renishaw working with about 20 different companies to get it where it is today and you being able to figure it all out on your own speaks volumes about your abilities and knowledge.

 

Everyone that owns a Fanuc has access to the O9800 program just a matter of turning on and off the right parameter.

[GoetzInd]

I'll say this. Even someone VERY experienced in Macro B is going to have a very hard time setting up something with the functionality of the Inspection+ probing and calibration macros. My renishaw book is showing the price of them at $1,076. Chump change for the time you save. The fastest way to understand how they work is get them and step through them.

 

Mike

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

We do not have access to the 9800 programs. The probe calibration programs have been individualized for the different machines here at work and I am just trying to learn how to do it myself. Sure, we could just hire some person to do it for us but I want to learn how to do it myself. What I am asking is there anyone out there that knows what math is invlovled in setting #500,#501,#502,#503? I am very aware that there is an easier way, but that is not how I do things.

 

Trying to reverse engineer what Renishaw spent DECADES developing is a foolish exercise and a wasted effort.

If you want to learn, bite the bullet and spend the money to get the Inspection Plus software and a Renishaw AE to spend a couple of days with you.

 

The stored common variables are EXTREMELY important to the proper use of a Renishaw Probe.

NONE of your other Macros can use these stored common variables or you will find yourself buying replacement probes on a regular basis.

[Peter - Avivi CNC Solutions]

Even someone VERY experienced in Macro B is going to have a very hard time setting up something with the functionality of the Inspection+ probing and calibration macros.

 

Exactly.

[FROZEN]

We got the soft with the probe. I just got done calibrating using the inspection plus. It took longer to get the probe on center and inspection ring indicated in then running the three programs, less then 15 minutes!!!

[cncchipmaker]

Are u guys trying to say that I should work for Renishaw if I want to learn how to do it? If this is the case then I am probably not going to get any information here.

[djstedman]

People are just saying that why would you want to re-invent the wheel when someone already has the market cornered on them.

 

You have to determine what you need to actually do, ie define your problem in geometric terms.

 

Next you have to apply the mathematics/geometry that is necessary to implement solutions to the problem you defined in step 1

 

Finally and last of all you need to take everything you figured out in steps 1 and 2 and go through the relatively simple step (compared to the first 2) of coding the macro.

 

As to your last comment about not getting much help, If you ask me your lack of specific help up to this point is due to how you asked your question and not what the question is about..

 

If you want help then ask a specific pointed question and make sure to provide enough background information that the person attempting to answer your question has enough information to do so.

 

Your initial question and your subsequent replies didn't provide enough details and left me (and I imagine everyone else in the thread) having to make assumptions about what exactly you were trying to do and why you were trying to do it, additionally it gave the distinct impression that you had no idea of the complexity of the project you were about to attempt, and finally it gave the impression that although you would like everyone to take their time to help you out you couldn't be bothered to take the time yourself to post a well thought out question with enough detail that someone could actually help..

 

If you couldn't put the time and effort into the question.. why should someone else jump through hoops to answer..

[GoetzInd]

Are u guys trying to say that I should work for Renishaw if I want to learn how to do it?

 

Not at all. Just buy inspection + macros and tell them you want a AE to come out and go through them with you. So for a little over 1K you have a very useful tool and knowledge. How are you using your probe now?

 

Mike

[Ron Branch @ 5th Axis]

Wow so all my answers provided no insight or help? Really man guess I need to get off this place. Please point to a different forum that does take those questions and that process you just did and gives you the answer you need. I want to see where I have fallen short to trying to help you here. Wow is all I can say that you cannot see us trying to help you here.

[Tim Johnson]

I know that all of our macro cycles use #501 X adjustement and #502 Y adjustment as variables. There are a couple of others but these are the main two I am concerned with. Would this work?

 

EX:

%

O0001

(BORE A 1 INCH HOLE AT X0Y0)

(THEN PROBE)

T120M06

(T120 = PROBE)

G0X0Y0

G43Z5.H120

Z.1

G1Z-.2F50.

G65P9914D1.Q1.R.2

#501=#135

#502=#136

IF#501LT.0002]GOTO1

#501=#501+[-[#501]]

N1IF#502LT.0002]GOTO2

#502=#502+[-[#502]]

N2

M30

 

#135 AND #136 are what the probe spits out as error.

 

%

O0001

(BORE A 1 INCH HOLE AT X0Y0)

(THEN PROBE)

T120M06

(T120 = PROBE)

G0X0Y0

G43Z5.H120

Z.1

G1Z-.2F50.

G65P9914D1.Q1.R.2

#501=#135

#502=#136

IF#501LT.0002]GOTO1

#501=[[-.5+.03937]-ABS[#135]] <<<<<<<<<

N1IF#502LT.0002]GOTO2

#502=[[-.5+.03937]-ABS[#136]] <<<<<<<<<

N2

M30

 

This is just a quick thought without knowing what #135 & #136 did equal (I guessed .48ish) but I could be out in left field depending on how O9914 was written.

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

Are u guys trying to say that I should work for Renishaw if I want to learn how to do it? If this is the case then I am probably not going to get any information here.

 

How you came up with that is beyond me.

 

If you are as skilled at Macros as you say, then you should already know what parameter to change so you can view the probing routines from your own machine.

 

Those programs are Renishaw's Intellectual Property just like Mastercam belongs to CNC Software.

If you want the right to use their products, you need to pay the reasonable cost incurred by licensed users.

If you want someone to get them and give them to you for free, it ain't going to happen.