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Saving an STL from Verify


MoMo1108
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I have only noticed this with x7.. when I save a STL model from the verify and then bring it in to verify next op the STL model is very grainy?? is this normal for x7 now thanks

How are you saving it? I have been trying to save my verified stock and I have not found a way to do so.

I can deal with grainy over having nothing. LOL

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Dodgerfan - The technology to save an stl model as a solid or even wireframe is in its infancy. STL is a simple, dumb, collection of triangles. To be able to identify edges, holes, features, etc is very difficult thing to do. You can merge and stl file into your current file as a single STL Mesh entity, use it a drive surface in a toolpath, use it as a stock model, shade it, transform it, but thats about it. I would encourage you to try using the Stock Model operation for this type of interaction however. By using the stock model, you get an associative model that is contained in your part file and can be exported if needed. Its also accurate and available as a stock model.

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Dodgerfan - The technology to save an stl model as a solid or even wireframe is in its infancy. STL is a simple, dumb, collection of triangles. To be able to identify edges, holes, features, etc is very difficult thing to do. You can merge and stl file into your current file as a single STL Mesh entity, use it a drive surface in a toolpath, use it as a stock model, shade it, transform it, but thats about it. I would encourage you to try using the Stock Model operation for this type of interaction however. By using the stock model, you get an associative model that is contained in your part file and can be exported if needed. Its also accurate and available as a stock model.

Thanks Kenneth, I'm curious , why is the stock on lathe so much more usable than mill? The lathe stock preview is excellent!

I hope the developers will make some progress on this, it would be a huge time saver.

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Dodgerfan - Lathe stock technology is based on a 2D spun profile. The software updates the stock with every move of the tool which requires the lathe stock to be recalculated each time. Lathe toolpaths typically have less moves than a mill part. In Mill we cannot assume a 2D stock model and updating with every move would be horrifically slow without much benefit. That's why we implemented the stock model as an operation type of tool that gives you the power to decide when a stock model is needed.

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is there a way to "lock" a stock model so it doesn't go dirty when changing the operations it was created from? I ask because the biggest reason I don't use them more is say 100 or so ops into a part and I realize that tool needed to stuck out an extra .1, or say I wanted to leave .010 less stock in the initial roughing ops. I don't really want to regen the stock model and all the operations tied to it because I know the changes I made will not really affect the other operations.

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^^ I agree about locking a stock model. Really a pain to regenerate a stock model(s) for something that has no real relevance to the model. I also use them sparingly for this reason.

 

What about if you could, like in solidworks, Lock All External References or even Break All External References?

 

That would really be useful, to me at least.

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is there a way to "lock" a stock model so it doesn't go dirty when changing the operations it was created from? I ask because the biggest reason I don't use them more is say 100 or so ops into a part and I realize that tool needed to stuck out an extra .1, or say I wanted to leave .010 less stock in the initial roughing ops. I don't really want to regen the stock model and all the operations tied to it because I know the changes I made will not really affect the other operations.

 

+1000

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Guys if you look to the STL from Verify as your process to build the stock model then you would create what you are after. Maybe a little bit of a hack, but got things ot where you like Verify it. Save that STL out and name it whatever helps you keep a reference. Then make a stock model from that file and you have a stock model of stock and a stock model of where you liked it and if you wanted one that was always updated then you could control that. Stock model gives you many different options and locking it sounds like a great thing, but again I think it defeats the purpose of what it was designed for. Follow me for a second why I put this out here. You picked operations and say use these operations to make a stock model and then change the operations that control it. Now you have locked the stock model and it does not update. Then you forget it is locked and get a crash or a scrapped part. Where does the fault belong to? By making it update then you know you are always getting the correct idea of what is going on. Yes I hate some of the 30 and 40 minute Regen times it takes why I use the Verify much faster and easier in X7 now in X8 it is supposed to get better we will see. I want a 100% accurate stock model I let what I ask for. I want a good enough one I Verify my operations to that point, use the accurate zoom to get the best quality at that point save it out and then build a stock model from that. Remember it is a math formula and you change the variables of the formula you want it to catch that and fix it. You go breaking the process what kind of problems are you going to create for the average user.

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Crazy^Millman, I see your point, "for the average user". But I think if the option to lock a Toolpath is available, so why not the stock model? If I crash something because of a locked stock model or toolpath the fault would be mine, not the software. That seems to be an issue of training.

 

For me locking the stock model would be a great option. Sometimes I don't want the stock model to update.

 

Returning to the Solidworks equivalent, Lock External References, I use it all the time. The mold designer designs a mold, I design all the electrodes for the mold, then I lock all the references of the electrodes to the mold. If the mold designer changes the mold, maybe to a new rev, my trodes do not automatically try to update to the new rev. Those original electrodes are frozen in time to Rev 1 of the mold. Before I started using "Lock External References" when the mold would change revisions my electrodes would generally crash and I had to decide what to do with them - either suppress them, or try to rebuild them. Sometimes with 20 or more trodes for a mold I would just suppress them. Now with "Lock External References" when a mold changes I HAVE THE OPTION of unlocking those references to see if the electrode would update correctly. If they do I up the Rev and do a "Save As" with new rev number. If not, I reopen the assembly file with all the references locked and intact and I create a new electrode.

 

Crazy, when you Verify and save out that STL, you are essentially doing the same as "Break External References" as that STL is now frozen and will not update. From reading what Kenneth wrote above it seems like they are not too hot on STLs. So I am just saying, why not have the option to lock (or even break) the references of a stock model? Then I am able to control the associativity for my situation.

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Crazy, when you Verify and save out that STL, you are essentially doing the same as "Break External References" as that STL is now frozen and will not update.

 

Jeremy this pretty much sum it up.

 

I have worked with STL files for well over 15 years and I am still not a fan of them. They have their place and purpose, but people complain enough about things and a lot of those complaints are centered right on the shoulders of STL technology being used in parts of the software. STL is and will always be an approximation of a feature. There are things that be be done to define the shape, but not STL is a real shape it is 3 points that define a triangle and many of those triangles define that shape without all the other stuff that needs to define it 100%. Why use stl to being with might come up and it is a matter of computing power. Anyone who has working with any Verification Software knows the make STL files. Anyone who has done 3d Printing knows it is STL not surfaces and could go on and on and on. What is the problem with staying with surfaces guess what 100% of what you see in games and on TV in cartoons and CG is all STL types of items not real surfaces. Thing is with the picture we see is really just pixelation a bunch of square shapes and yes triangles representing what you see on the screen. I offer some thoughts on this subject and see where the cross roads are for any software company. Solid model and surfaces are great, but people like Dassault figured out a long time ago how to paint a pretty picture inside of the software. You can open up a 787 aircraft with everything inside of Catia pretty quick on even the most average computer. Thing is that is not all surfaces and solids it is a tessellation model. That is just a fancy name for a STL. The Stock Model is a different type of tessellation representation and it comes back to a STL plain and simple. Thing is where do you draw the line for performance for the average user and .00001 detail for the people who need that kind of detail? Now need to add another function to the stock model to lock it to or unlock it to operations.

 

Yes I agree it is a matter of training, but recent topic someone is raising all types of cane about arcs not outputting and sorry in it that case it comes down to a lack of training. I have spent a week training customers on something and 1st call Monday morning is how do I turn this piece of crap on thing on again. I have spent 3 days training a customer 6 days worth of material and then have to give money back because they felt like they did not get enough out of the training and complain I was the worst trainer they ever got. Sorry but if you look at the customer base of the product what does the majority do with it? How many use it to the extents being asked for here? I am not trying to squash anything and I am totally on my own here, but being on the other side of the coin I look at things a lot different than the average user.

 

I will throw this out here were do you want resources focused when it comes to people to work on things in the software? I would rather see Tool Manager and Verify along with Old School toolpaths get integrated into the software then something that yes would be nice to have, but seeing how I can make it work like you are asking with a little bit of work it to me go to the bottom of list I would like to see done.

 

Again I am no one special and my opinion and a nickel and you got a penny worth of anything.

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There is a stock model set of buttons you can activate. In there is an export stock model as STL button. Or you can Verify the part and then save it out as an STL or if you bring in a stock model with nothing done and save it as an STL. I make solids of my parts old school way like it should be through some of the operations I can use the save some and save it as an STL.

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